Mech Eng idea: No more randomness?

[Joseph Hewitt]

Here's an idea I had for Mecha Engineering: Right now there's a random roll to install a part, and if it fails the part is destroyed. How about if there were no random roll involved, but a certain level in Mecha Engineering is needed depending on the type of modification being done? A base MechEng rank of 1 would give the ability to add/remove complete limbs. Higher thresholds would be needed for weapons, sensors, movement systems, et cetera... if your skill isn't high enough then you cannot perform this modification at all.

Benefits to this change: No more losing expensive parts to bad rolls, and from a design perspective no more encouraging players to savescumm.

Drawbacks: There will be a final skill rank beyond which no more training is needed. Also, not all skill increases will be equal: maybe rank 5 to rank 6 will be very useful, but ranks 7 and 8 will provide no direct benefit.

Aha, but: Maybe using MechEng on your mecha can cause "bugs" which then need to be worked out. You get a MechEng roll just like right now, but if failed the part isn't destroyed. Instead, your mecha acquires a "bug" which is not immediately obvious. Some time later during combat the "bug" may activate causing a status problem or knocking out one of your components.

Thoughts?

[Frumple]

Re: Bugs. Only thought I'd have related to that is maybe including a number of NPCs, possibly unique or limited to specific spinners, who could diagnose/fix your machines. Maybe a quest involved to open up access to them. Possibly a code-breaking and/or Electronic Warfare tie in?

Questions: Would the bug be recurrent or single shot? Would particularly bad rolls turn the bug viral and infect other components? Would having many bugs in the mecha increase possibility or severity of activation? Would the degree of roll failure affect the severity of the bug or would it be a boolean bugged/not bugged thing? Could there be something like that bad mood ability whatsit that could turn a buggy mecha into (at least occasionally) a good thing? Virus guns for inducing bugs into enemy machines?

Re: No-roll. Definitely would reduce urge to scum. On the other paw, it would also negate the chance of a lucky roll and a really impressive piece stuck on a low level mecha. The bug thing might make that better; could still have sensor 10 in my Buruburu, it just might occasionally explode. Note: If explodes, should be large enough blast to engulf other mecha, heeheehee.

Re: Upper rank M.Eng. Maybe higher ranks -- above the 'cut-off' point -- M.Eng could allow for a degree of parts customization? Weight reduction, minor DC increase, armor improvement, etc, etc, etc. Combining it with the bug thing would still be viable.

Random: Perhaps some sort of failure would render parts unrepairable by most/all garages; presumably you'd have done something mechanically horrific that still works, but the garage boys just can't figure out how the blazes you did it. You'd still be able to personally repair it, but the repair roll would be higher or somethin'.

[Joseph Hewitt]

The bugs would be a one-time thing, or possibly a two-time thing in the face of a spectacularly bad roll. I don't like the idea of being able to diagnose/fix the machine right away; again, this would mean that you never need a MechEng rank higher than the bare minimum to install a part.

[Trorbes]

I do like the idea of the non-random installation odds, but I don't care for the idea that the skill is useless at some/beyond the final level it's needed.  I think maybe the skill could also be used for upgrading parts - say, adding an additional slot to an arm, bumping up the level of an arc thruster, increasing the range or damage of a weapon, something like that.  That way, the skill has more use than just a static "I can now do X, I have to level again before I can do Y" thing.  It would also give a reason to continue levelling it after reaching the point where nothing else requires it, to increase the chance to successfully upgrade a part.  In fact, it could possibly be made so that the only way to have decent odds of upgrading a part is to level it beyond this "cap."

[Onisuzume]

Well, I agree with most of what frumple said.
Except, ofcourse, for the quick-fix nps.

As for the virus guns... hm.. dunno. Maybe as a themed weapon?

[Joseph Hewitt]

I like the Virus Gun idea, myself. A similar weapon was used in the Cowboy Bebop episode "Wild Horses"; I'm sure there are other examples.

[Phil Munoz]

I thought Mech Engineering was mostly non-random already?  Or was just the part about complexity and overstuffing?  I forgot how that works.

Maybe normal mech engineering can be non-random, while overstuffing attempts be randomized?  You can give it a prompt telling the player that the part he is trying to install is beyond the complexity limit of the module and would then ask him if he wants to attempt to force the damn thing in anyway.

This can result in:

- Success.

- Apparent success, mostly same as previously mentioned, a bugged installation: failure due to faulty installation during extensive use (combat) - can be anything from simply not working, falling out of its installed location (goes back into inventory or drops to ground), or of course the grand kablooey explody goodness.

- Failure.

- Failure with extra bad things.  (the usual destroyed part, or maybe on a spectacularly bad roll even damage to the module you were trying to install it in).

[Erathoniel]

I like the idea of maybe a point-based system for guaranteed building with an additional system allowing risky extension past that, with a good potential of damaging/destroying components (both the one being added, and the one being added to). I also like the idea of bugs, with a potential replacement for damage or destruction of components being that they glitch out so often it's a lottery to get a good fight in with them before they fry you instead of the foe.

[EuchreJack]

The bugs would be a one-time thing, or possibly a two-time thing in the face of a spectacularly bad roll. I don't like the idea of being able to diagnose/fix the machine right away; again, this would mean that you never need a MechEng rank higher than the bare minimum to install a part.

I'd suggest the bug either be detectable right away, or minor enough not to kill off the PC.  It'd be really aggravating to die due to something I didn't know about.  Now, just because the player knows a bug exists, doesn't mean the player has the ability to fix the problem.  Perhaps the player just notices "this leg doesn't seem as fluid as I expected it to be" or "did my laser just beep for no reason?".  The player would have the choice of either removing the defective part, or using it in hopes of discovering the problem, after which either the PC or an NPC can fix the bug.  Whether or not the bug is reoccuring or the player fixes it could be based on just how bad the player failed originally, and rolled against their current Mecha Engineering.  Essentially the player rolls the degree of fault against their Mecha Engineering whenever the bug surfaces.

[SharkD]

I think unlocking specific skills based on skill level is a good idea. However, I wouldn't remove randomization entirely. Combine the two ideas instead.

[gogis]

Why not to just make unsuccesfull tasks to damage parts?
1. Random from 0% to like 60% with alowance of destroying it if went to negative
2. Minimal treshold to even being able to perform task.


Obviously 1) would make repair training way to easy and requires a rebalancing.

On the other hand, currently player forced to savescum or forbid mecha engineering training-by-use and spend EXP which is not good either. Also it's kinda unrealistic, how on earth you could possibly to completely destroy a part? Leaking plasma wrench, laser screwdriver or something?

[RadonPlasma]

Just to JH's original post:  I very much like the idea of abandoning the random part breakage thing.  Buying a couple of expensive parts for a long awaited upgrade regime, then accidentally breaking one, then finding out that the failed upgrade took just long enough to get that part rotated out of the shopkeeper's stock has been pretty exasperating at times.  As for a potential 'bugs and their fixing' feature, how about the following sequence:  Whether or not a bug was introduced starts out a secret.  The PC finds out that the new hardware is acting funny after using it a few times.  The attempted diagnosis is the random part; each go-around takes a few MP and some time.  A success changes the option from 'diagnose' to 'fix'.  'Fix' would be largely the same thing... except that it would also cost repair fuel, and introduces the risk of a low skill character thinking they fixed the problem (i.e. the game gives you a success message and removes the 'fix' option) without actually changing anything.  Once more into the breach...

Frumple had the idea of making little improvements to the installed items.  That would be kind of nice, adding to the scrappy, homebrewed feeling of out-engineering the competition.