Author Topic: How far can a Mesby take me?  (Read 2404 times)

Offline barrelroll

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How far can a Mesby take me?
« on: February 14, 2009, 10:12:42 PM »
I've just completed Episode 3 in my game, and either I've been very lucky so far or I have the most badass Mesby(I got destroyed in the very first fight against a "Volcanic Buru Buru" last time with one") ever. It has a PV of 328005, and im starting to wonder if i could get through the entire game with it. Possible, yet very difficult, or should I except it to get totaled soon?

Offline Frumple

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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2009, 10:48:58 PM »
No clue about the entire game, but I've cruised past the sixth or seventh ep in a Mebsy so far. They're only -2/-2 mechs, so they're pretty agile as such things go. Grab a decent weapon or three (Though the Mag rifle's honestly not that bad, especially if you're a sniper. The light missiles are absolute crap, though.), customize it up a bit (at least swap the shield out for a beam version. Ice winds carry those, I think.), and you should be able to do alright for a while, at least.

I imagine once blast weapons start getting slung about like bad news it'll crumple pretty quickly, though. Most lower 'tier' mecha seem to have that problem...
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Offline unback

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How far can a Mesby take me?
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2009, 11:27:45 PM »
is that somesort of ironman challenge? to beat the game in worst mech possible  ? :)

Offline Frumple

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« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2009, 11:56:41 PM »
Well, if the Mebsy was the worst mech possible...

The real fun would be modding in a limbless, weaponless, SF:1 torso with a cockpit and no armor, and seeing how far mecha engineering can get you... without adding limbs, heh. Maybe give it an class one space jet and hope you're somewhere you can dungeon crawl for a bit...

'course, you probably couldn't do much without modding in extra SF:1 junk, in that scenario. Hmm... might be an interesting side project, converting all the SF:2 mecha stuff down a scale...
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Offline alias

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« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2009, 12:21:37 AM »
Things I've learned about surviving mecha combat with objective complete and mech intact (mostly from Gearhead 1, at least partially updated to Gearhead 2):

Things you really have to watch out for hardware-wise are, "BLAST," "LINE," possibly, "SCATTER," really high BV/range guns and targetcomps.  If you still do get hit occasionally but shrug it off from armor then you also have to be really paranoid about, "OVERLOAD," and, "HAYWIRE."  I suggest you steal one of those .5 ton 1-slot computers from a Trailblazer loaded with a mecha catalogue and an awareness +3 SW if you haven't yet, this'll let you know what you have to be scared of and help you see it before it sees you.  If you're really good at gunnery/artillery yourself consider cutting fights short by hitting the enemy in exposed ammo launchers that haven't run out of ammo to make them go boom, double-bonus if it is ammo with a, "BLAST" flag and you aren't within range.  (Favourite trick to get rid of chimenteros and anything with those bazookas.)
If you can find four spare slots for it also the 1t/200ZeG computers on Luna IIs (1 quarter the weight of the same capacity of computer from a parts shop) can hold a +2/+2 TR/MV software set--the part you need most for improving longevity is probably the MV bonus so you may prefer +1/+3 TR/MV software distribution instead (or even +2 Speedcomp/+3MV or just +3MV and the software from the Trailblazer's computer if you want to save a slot and .5t).  This will increase the PV a lot and any missions that scale by PV will jump in difficulty dramatically (bigger mechs with more, bigger guns).
If you can get it you may also increase your defensive mileage with a certain piece of software I've salvaged in my arena games that takes 70ZeG and gives a +2 bonus to piloting skill without affecting MV, the lightest computer you can install this in comes from Vadels (and maybe some other mechs) which is a 0.5t 100ZeG computer (2 slots).
If your MPs are low you may do better to stick the 30 ZeG mecha catalogue/analyzer whateversoftware in the same 100+ZeG computer as that +2 piloting software (70 ZeG) and give up on the +3 awareness--this depends on if using awareness software inside a mech spends your MPs like using a data visor does on personal scale.  This is to avoid the tired penalty to all actions from exhausting your MPs.
As always keeping your mecha moving at high speed by boosting its movement powers is probably your best general added protection, especially if your stealth isn't much higher than their awareness.  Currently you can see if it is and how much it is so by looking at the rolls history (R).  If you forego stealth moving at top speed the stunt driving talent can come into play, allowing you to reroll your mecha piloting which is generally the most powerful defence roll you get against attacks.  Acrobatics also may help if you're good at it (and holding a pair of ribbons?) if your mech's supplemental armor is no higher than class 2, and an ECM gives you an additional defence roll using electronic warfare against most things--exercise this skill regularly with lots of OVERLOAD, BURN, HAYWIRE, RUST, and other special-inflicting weapons, overload especially because once you've hit with it this will make whatever you hit with it both easier to hit in future and less capable of hitting you with things that aren't artillery.  Note: With the innovation feat, that set of lightened class-1 armor you get from a Trailblazer can fit an arcjet 6 in each piece, or maybe, if you're really lucky, a few of the super-light heavy actuator 5s from an ovaknight if you do most of your fighting on land and actually think you can risk some melee combat.
To improve your MV/TR ratios you are best off mounting your weapons on mounting points, this halves their effective weight for penalizing MV/TR.  At the same time weight absolutely lowers speed and even halved weight still penalizes MV/TR: A non-augmented battroid mech with a standard 7 mounting points (1 head, 1x2 arms, 1x2 legs and 2 for torso) costs 3.5 tons by itself for the mountings which can make a difference particularly with smaller mecha.
As far as tactical behaviour goes: NEVER SIT STILL, this is the quickest way to die.  Make sure to use available cover to improve your stealth and try to end your turns behind tall mountains where you can't be seen if you can (and are using turn-based combat).  I love arcjets because they let you fly high to see enemies without their cover and also hover to make use of some yourself while still moving at a good speed.
In GH1 it used to be that to turn the quickest you possibly could you should switch to walking mode, turn and then return to movement in whatever mode fits your tactical agenda because otherwise it takes longer while you're sitting still and can't fire (with hover mode) or takes a really long time and sent you swinging in a huge arc in which you couldn't fire (in flight mode).  I don't know exactly how much this is so still but using the default settings for squad based tactics (I've got action/time bars for everybody in my unit and then it's the enemy's turn), I find that you should set your movement type to whatever you want it to be when you're done turning because shifting modes almost always takes as much time again as turning does and you want to minimize time spent moving in a movement mode that's too slow or turning since that is strictly a period of vulnerability with no redeeming features tactically.  Also, be aware that movement mode change seems to happen AFTER the movement itself with the very specific exception of letting you jump to flight mode to avoid skimming off a cliff.  The progression <i>seems</i> to be turn/move/mode-change although I don't really know because I'm sick of looking at C code all day and can't be bothered to learn Pascal to hack source.

Things I miss from GearHead 1: The personal scale plasma cannons with a pair of barrel extenders.  Those were awesome for hitting drones without wasting real weapons--even though they were too weak to kill them usually it often let you hit more than one at once like a tiny fly swatter.  I also liked having ranged weapons that could reach my enemies a turn before they got close enough to shoot me, possibly forever if my jet was fast enough and I was shooting backwards with a turret.  In arena mode the maps aren't big enough to try that trick even if I did have the range.  :(

Note for balance maintainers (Mr Hewitt and whoever else helps him with these issues I guess): The system currently seems to let you design a SF:0 computer with 500 points of capacity (if there's no hidden barrier I'm unaware of), if you were to install that in a mech suddenly you'd have a 1 slot, possibly .5t computer more powerful than any other in the game.  This aspect of mixing size factors for mecha engineering may need to be addressed.  I'm also curious just how much SF:0 junk I can pile into my mech before it makes a difference in SF:2 weight... can I still pile up tons and tons of repair supplies and gizmos for robot construction (possibly army deployment) or have I been cut off from having a limitless vault I drive in?  (I know it always increased the PV but if you've read the above guide you can probably guess that this never troubled me much except for XP gain lost.)

Offline Jafet

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« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2009, 07:11:52 AM »
Is it cheating if I hire a lancemate with better mecha and skills (ie. "Vikki")?

Offline EarthquakeDamage

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« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2009, 07:33:43 AM »
You might consider giving your Mebsy some particle cannons (seriously, I love those things so much -- can't get enough OVERLOAD) and the best ECM you can find.  The two work wonders together since the PCs pump your Electronic Warfare, which figures directly into your ECM defense.  As an added bonus, MV becomes irrelevant.  Use those computers for TR and speed compensation instead.  Finally, if you're worried about damage output, get the Sniper talent.  You may want to add a heavy or superheavy particle cannon (I forget where you find those -- stores, maybe?) strictly for use against big, tough mecha.

To whom it may concern:  Yes, I love the Monstrous in GH1.

Quoting: alias
Acrobatics also may help if you're good at it (and holding a pair of ribbons?) if your mech's supplemental armor is no higher than class 2


This confused me, so I looked it up.  Apparently you can use Acrobatics in a mecha (to my surprise).  The armor restriction doesn't seem to apply to mecha, but you must have a Reflex System.  So you're SOL with your Mebsy.

Offline unback

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« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2009, 11:39:11 AM »
i'd say, having smoke launcher, +12 or more stealth/spot weaknes, ninjitsu, +0 TR mech and one or two 250+ weapons grants you really nice surviveability, and thanks to +10 roll grand bonus while shooting out of smoke it can be one-hit-one-dead.

Offline barrelroll

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« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2009, 12:33:53 PM »
Gotten to Ep 7, with a Mesby (From this moment on christened the "DYNAMIC ERUPTING MESBY")  that has a PV of 532567. MV and TR are at -3 while sensors are still at +0. (kinda) Fully armored and packing a phoenix rifle, metro shield, and particle cannon. Bought a trailblazer for its computer and ECM and got that in..what should i install on the computer? I know i should increase MV/TR/SE but im not sure which things increase what. On that note, are there any thrusters or something i can buy to make it faster?

I think i dropped stealth, but i should still have spot weakness. Wonder if i can stick those smoke things on without getting a mv/tr penalty

Offline unback

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« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2009, 01:49:08 PM »
install software that have +targeting and +movement to nullify -TR and MV of mecha, install better class sensors in head for better +sensor.
about trusters, dunno, space flight jets, arc thrusters, hower jets...

smoke launcher is something i use to generate cover so i can hide in it (and gain +10 hit/dmg bonuses from being ninja:), wont really work good without decent stealth (they will be still able to detect you).

This confused me, so I looked it up. Apparently you can use Acrobatics in a mecha (to my surprise). The armor restriction doesn't seem to apply to mecha, but you must have a Reflex System.

haha, GH is after all anime-influenced game ;D thus good to know one can do that, now how to install reflex system into gladius/ovaknight... hmmm

Offline Trorbes

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« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2009, 02:04:19 PM »
The Trailblazer's computer is small, so you'll only be able to add +1 to either your MV or TR.  You can find the software in electronics shops, and at mecha parts shops you can also find bigger computers.  I'd suggest getting something to raise your MV first, as plenty of mid-tier mecha will fly circles around you.  Sensors don't require a computer, they're just something you install into the mech.  Installing one into the head gives a +3 to sensor rating.

There are several kinds of thrusters: Hover jets, flight jets, arcjets, and space flight jets.  You can search the forums for more detailed information, but to put it shortly, arcjets are a little slower than flight jets but also function like hover jets.  If you can reach flight speeds (~100 jump, IIRC), then there's a bit more difference in that arcjets allow you to hover off the ground while flight jets keep you moving.  Overchargers increase your top speed and give a small boost to movement.  There are also wheels and tracks, but those aren't very useful in space combat.

Offline Crucifix

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« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2009, 02:04:35 PM »
Heavy Particle Cannons are commonly found in Nekos, the only super heavies I've seen are in stores.

I find Ninjitsu and the Smoke Launcher to be invaluable, both for damage and for survivability.


If you start off in/successfully enter a faction, spend your $ into Electronic Warfare, Piloting and Gunnery, pick up a railgun (or Keelhauler, as they are now, which is to say, an ammo based heavy particle cannon with same weight and BV 6), raise Engineering, Awareness and Stealth with Exp. Maybe intentionally lose a few combats every now and then until your skills are up to spec.... I'd think a Mebsy run through the core story would be quite doable, though I'd be careful to get backup wherever possible (and make judicious use of the smoke launcher, stunt driving, and if at all possible, a Digging Launcher custom weapon for weapon platform plots, those things can rape unlucky Savins, they'll eat you alive).

For talents I'd say start with either Ninjitsu or Stunt Driving, then whichever you didn't get, then Sniper or Innovation (you really, really want to fit in the best Arc Thrusters/ECM suites/Sensors you can get, and a high engineering skill to make the rolls needed to balance installed versus equipped gear for the best MV/TR never hurts either). The fifth is up for grabs, since Tech Vulture is pretty lacking when you never change mecha, and I'm not sure if you can transplant Pixie limbs onto the Mebsy or not (in fact, any size appropriate wings might be worth swapping over too, for the speed advantages alone. Maybe, just maybe, a Gaunt?).

But yeah, definitely grab innovation and go Pimp Your Mebsy, it's your only chance for the later chapters, don't expect to go completing all the subquests either.

Offline Jafet

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« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2009, 02:50:48 AM »
The weapons platforms encounters are trivial to beat if you have something with a long enough range. Pity Phase Cannons are range 32 now...

What does everyone think about the feasibility of beating the game in a... Dora?

Offline unback

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« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2009, 02:58:55 AM »
maybe wraith ?
cos we dont have LR-2099-8 Rover anymore in gh2.. :D

Offline Onisuzume

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« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2009, 03:10:14 AM »
Quoting: unback
cos we dont have LR-2099-8 Rover anymore in gh2.. :D

That's it, I gonna make a space rover!
I already made a space vespa, so... ^_^