Scale 1 Mecha

[Phil Munoz]

If I recall correctly, I think Scale 1 mecha are mentioned to be like oversized power armor, like the ones in heavy gear, or appleseed... maybe sakura wars' koubu.

I was just thinking, Scale 1 mecha don't get a lot of love, and since the idea of a spaceship entered (Scale 3?)... I was just thinking, maybe there needs to be some kind of incentive to use Scale 1 mecha.

How big are scale 1 really?  Whenever I see a vespa, I imagine a scooter with an autocannon.  If they're really small, maybe it's possible that some Scale 1 mecha can be used on some Personal Scale maps.  maybe some non-indoors places and cave... maybe some parts of a spaceship or colony... mining colonies for example should have small mecha for mining in tight areas...

also, it would be nice to take out enemies in scale 1 mecha while you're on foot with an assault cannon or rapid fire bazooka....

[macksting]

When I think of the Vespa, and its Combat Canopy, I always think of Kaneda's motorcycle. Against a VF-1's guns, it would fold like tissue paper and the pilot would be vaporized, but against the guns of a small tank, as in the charming little mech at the end of Ghost in the Shell, it might never get hit, could get in close, and... well, sadly, if hit, would probably still pretty badly fold. But it might just roll over (god damn what a bike that was) and continue, albeit with a shaky wheel and a frightening whistle of wind through the canopy window's hole.

I've got a pretty good imagination sometimes.

[draconuszero]

If Sf1 mecha are basically powersuits like Elementals from battletech, they are used en-masse to slowly tear through the bigger mecha since they can just climb onto bigger ones and use lasers to get thru the armor and the critical areas.  Having a lot of power armor would likely slow down the game though IMO, but I could be wrong...

[Tung Nguyen]

If enemy SF:1 mecha use team AI, they could use the divide and conquer tactic to aim at the same target mecha, at the same critical location. That wouldn't make things too hard, would it?

I like the idea of SF:1 mecha being able to traverse personal scale maps. Well, not all of them (it'd be too much to ask to make them fit through doorways), but right now they're either ants on an SF:2 combat scene, or not used at all.

SF:1 are cheaper and smaller than larger ones. I can see practical uses for them in packing, cargo loading, personal scale security and law enforcement, scouting, or even as common transportation (SF:2 mecha are like giant trucks and tanks, these would be more like cars).

[macksting]

Do SF:1 mecha have a stealth bonus? This seems appropriate to me, as they would have a smaller radar cross section, smaller and less heat-intensive engines, and less structure to reflect/conduct other detections methods. They'd have a harder time seeing each other, but it would be no more difficult to see a SF:2 mech than it was before.
This would provide at least a modicum of advantage to using SF:1 mecha. Thoughts?

Perhaps cars aren't used much in the setting, whereas trucks, tanks and trains are more common. (As an upper end to the SF:1 scale, the Osprey looks very much like a semi with a turret, and it's SF:2.)

[draconuszero]

Quoting: Tung Nguyen

If enemy SF:1 mecha use team AI, they could use the divide and conquer tactic to aim at the same target mecha, at the same critical location. That wouldn't make things too hard, would it?

If Jospeh or peter can code gearhead so that there are commands (attack/defend X, go to coordinates) with subcommands (head/legs/body in the attack case), then what you are suggesting is possible.  Either that, or just fix up the tacticsmode.

[Phil Munoz]

If I'm not mistaken, the renegade and rover are cars.

[Anticheese]

And the Osprey.

Quoting: draconuszero

Either that, or just fix up the tacticsmode.

Tactics mode definatly needs fixing up, Being able to only take one turn at a time over many Mecha can be a bit confusing..

Perhaps if the A.I were improved and the player could be given the option to take one (or more) turns in a lancemate mech on demand?

[Phil Munoz]

Doesn't the ASCII version have that arena mode thing, where you create a bunch of characters that fight in an arena?  You can already control several mecha during one battle, what's wrong with using that system for tactics mode?

Anyway, GH2 could probably have more scale 1 mecha than GH1.  It would make more sense for resource-restricted factions (Spinner/Miner Colonies... AOL, perhaps?) to specialize in Scale 1 mecha.  The big nasties like Chimentero and Gigas can stay at SF2, but smaller scout mecha should be SF1, to save resources... optimize performance, etc, etc.  If it's a matter of firepower for terrorizing the enemy, just put big guns on small mecha.  Since the weight system is being reworked, it wouldn't be much of a risk for an exploit (No more SF1 weapons in SF2 mecha for 0 weight).

[Joseph Hewitt]

I like the idea of using SF:1 mecha in personal scale encounters better than keeping on using them in SF:2 encounters. You may notice that so far, I haven't added any SF:1 mecha to GH2. This is partly because I'm not sure what to do with them.

I kind of like the idea of SF:1 mecha sometimes appearing in personal combat situations. The trouble is, most people would then want their own SF:1 mecha for these situations. I could try to come up with situations in which the PC has to face SF:1 mecha but is for some reason prevented from using his SF:2 mecha.

I may just leave SF:1 mecha as powerloaders and civilian vehicles. Hmm... maybe SF:1 "superinfantry" could be deployed in squads of 4-8 suits in SF:2 encounters. That would be a lot cooler than encountering them as if they were full-fledged mecha, I think. Major NPCs would always be given SF:2 mecha.

[draconuszero]

Quoting: Joseph Hewitt

I kind of like the idea of SF:1 mecha sometimes appearing in personal combat situations. The trouble is, most people would then want their own SF:1 mecha for these situations. I could try to come up with situations in which the PC has to face SF:1 mecha but is for some reason prevented from using his SF:2 mecha.

Cave or City battles?  Generally areas where you are in a maze-like area or places with a lot of monetary values are probable places for sf1 mecha since you want to minimize damage to surroundings.

Quoting: Joseph Hewitt

I may just leave SF:1 mecha as powerloaders and civilian vehicles. Hmm... maybe SF:1 "superinfantry" could be deployed in squads of 4-8 suits in SF:2 encounters. That would be a lot cooler than encountering them as if they were full-fledged mecha, I think. Major NPCs would always be given SF:2 mecha.

Good idea!

[macksting]

I do like the squads idea, although it seems to me that a pack of Vespas or Doom Buggies would be similarly dangerous.
"We'll mobilize a squad of 12 Vespas to assist in the assault, but we'll be depending on your Chimentaro for the bulk of the fight. Think you can handle it?"

[Phil Munoz]

Quoting: Joseph Hewitt

I kind of like the idea of SF:1 mecha sometimes appearing in personal combat situations. The trouble is, most people would then want their own SF:1 mecha for these situations. I could try to come up with situations in which the PC has to face SF:1 mecha but is for some reason prevented from using his SF:2 mecha.

If it's possible, then maybe some SF:2 mecha (Probably an unlockable or a high rank reward mecha) can have a SF:1 combiner drone that can be used in personal scale battles.  (Kinda like Transformers Master Force, or Vandread... can't think of better examples).

SF:1 Squads in an SF:2 battle would be awesome.   In Ascii, they can be represented by a number (assuming they don't exceed 9) corresponding to how many units in the squad are still active.  In SDL, the offset graphic thing that would be used for bullet burst could be applied.  Just ideas...

[Anticheese]

Minor suggestion, but what if squads could split up and use divide and conquer tactics? The idea is that if you have one squad of 10 vespas or whatever, they might break formation and split off into two squads of five, or three squads of 3 with a leader?

[Phil Munoz]

Eh, from what I know, divide and conquer tactics means you divide the enemy, not divide your own troops.  Isolate an enemy from its allies and gang up on it.