Author Topic: (GH2) The Final Death: wtf?  (Read 2276 times)

Offline Michael

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(GH2) The Final Death: wtf?
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2008, 05:45:26 pm »
Quoting: Erathoniel
It's automatic when you eject. That way they don't get the mecha.

That doesn't qualify as a penalty for ejection -- since it would only be needed if the enemy was claiming ejected mecha.  If the enemy did, "auto-scuttle" would not need to be invoked to justify loss of the mech.

Also, if one was trying to deny the enemy one's mecha, scuttle-on-eject would be a poor way to do it.  Rather, the character should arm a booby trap that does nothing until someone without the right password tries to salvage the mech.

This way the enemy is not only denied the prize -- he (or his engineer) may get hurt when the mech blows up as he tries to salvage.

And it allows the player to recover the mecha if his team eventually wins, since he knows the method to disarm the trap.  And even if the enemy  team does win, they might leave the mecha on the field rather than risk the trap.

Offline Varil

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« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2008, 01:14:11 am »
Nice, but for fairness sake it should apply to enemy mecha too :). Assume you can use weaponry to dismember the thing and carry off weapons and stuff, but the torso(and head?) should be unrecoverable without a proper passcode, or some awesome hacking skills.

Offline Frumple

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« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2008, 01:27:05 am »
Is that a mecha-scale use for code-breaking I hear?

Personally, I kinda' like the 'looseness' of GH's ejection/mecha salvaging set-up... it does feel pretty true to the anime-roots, where it sometimes seems everybody and their kid sister's hopping into some random death-machine and driving off with it.  

To be honest, I wish there were more chances to do just that -- sneak up on some poor sap outside of his mecha, sap the guy in the back of the head, and then drive off with the thing. Stuff like that is made of win, yeah.

On the flip side, I can see the arguement for harsher-penalities for the mecha-salvage/loss process. The reccomendation? Do for mecha what's done for people -- "internal" damage, only fixable by, more or less, replacement. Too many 'revives' and the mecha becomes either mostly useless, or just plain ol' gives up the ghost and stops working.

It'd actually be kinda' neat to have to use ol' damaged 'junker' mecha from time to time, if one was looking for a way to apply such stuff to plot/mission type things...
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Offline Michael

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(GH2) The Final Death: wtf?
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2008, 02:19:16 am »
Quoting: Varil
Nice, but for fairness sake it should apply to enemy mecha too :).

Fine.  It's not going to make much difference since it's already near-impossible to capture mecha intact.

If this was added, and the silly rule that mechs with destroyed Body modules are unrecoverable was removed, then it would be an overall win.

Quoting: Varil
Assume you can use weaponry to dismember the thing and carry off weapons and stuff, but the torso(and head?) should be unrecoverable without a proper passcode, or some awesome hacking skills.

That's entirely up to the mech owner.  A paranoid trap that trips a nuke if a limb is hacked off (and wasn't already gone before ejection) would deter that method of salvage, but could needlessly sacrifice the mech if an errant shot hit it.

Quoting: Frumple
On the flip side, I can see the arguement for harsher-penalities for the mecha-salvage/loss process. The reccomendation? Do for mecha what's done for people -- "internal" damage, only fixable by, more or less, replacement. Too many 'revives' and the mecha becomes either mostly useless, or just plain ol' gives up the ghost and stops working.

That would be a good idea, although it wouldn't need to be harsher.  Mecha that are presently totally gone could be recovered via this path.

Quoting: Frumple
It'd actually be kinda' neat to have to use ol' damaged 'junker' mecha from time to time, if one was looking for a way to apply such stuff to plot/mission type things...

Such mecha should be buyable.  We could have a "hand-me-down" system.   Rich mecha pilots who apply the Brute Force Method of Repair -- throw it away and buy a new one -- would provide a source of affordable mecha for the dispossessed.

Offline Joseph Hewitt

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(GH2) The Final Death: wtf?
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2008, 03:25:18 am »
Sorry for being mostly absent lately. The past few weeks have been really busy, and right now I'm just really tired. There are a lot of good ideas in here. The head-cockpit issue, particularly, needs to be resolved quickly. I think that only allowing mecha to be recovered if you win the battle is a good idea. I'll have more to say after I've read this thread more thoroughly.

Offline macksting

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(GH2) The Final Death: wtf?
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2008, 09:24:36 am »
Granted I've got my 'drothers, but we're aware how busy your life is right now, especially compared to how it was (for the sake of argument) a year ago. If it takes you a while to respond to salient points or make a change, I can't speak for everybody else, but I do understand.
I'm terribly curious what you have to say about this internal damage idea.

Offline Burzmali

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« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2008, 10:31:10 am »
Here are some ideas:

1.)  Distinguish Disabled from Destroyed.  A module is disabled at 25% health and destroyed at 0%.  Therefore, if the body module, or the module holding the cockpit is disabled, the mecha is disabled but not destroyed.  For added fun, destroyed modules can not be repaired and the player has to buy a replacement.

2.)  Require additional steps to salvage.  Instead of automatically recovering mecha that are recoverable, a recover/salvage dialog window opens up after the battle.  If salvage was allowed, the player can select the equipment to recover, and if near a friendly station, can pay to have a "recovery team" come by and recover mecha that require a new cockpit, and salvage mecha that were disabled but not destroyed.  A mecha that had its pilot killed could be recovered for free if the player's team had a dismounted mecha pilot (assumes that they are a passenger in one of the other mecha).  This method also has the benefit of integrating well with Ships (i.e. recovery and salvage components) when they are implemented.  Conversely, enemies would only be allowed to salvage if they were within range of their "base".

3.) Strip and run.  If the player ejects, the mecha is left dead in space.  Since the pirates need to get back to their hideout before the cops arrive, dragging a heavy mecha around isn't an option.  However, there they can yank off everything that isn't bolted down (i.e. external armor and mounted weapons and thrusters) and clean out the hold.  Afterwards, the player could claim what's left of their mecha.  More advanced pirates might even ransom more expensive mecha, threatening to destroy them if the player doesn't cough up the credits.  If this were to be implemented, I would recommend making Mecha weapon and armor shops more common, and low end weapons cheaper.

4.)  Dangerous ejections.  If the module holding the mecha's cockpit is destroyed, the pilot is forced to make a "emergency ejection" roll.  The roll would be athletics against something like 10 + the DC of the attacker's weapon - the cockpit's armor rating - 5 for head mounted cockpits.  Every point the roll is missed by randomly increases the DC or BV of an attack against the pilot.

Offline Erathoniel

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« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2008, 03:00:10 pm »
True. What about extra expense to repair destroyed mecha if you can acquire the mecha back (buy it back from the responsible pirates?)

Offline Joseph Hewitt

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« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2008, 11:35:47 pm »
Quoting: macksting
I'm terribly curious what you have to say about this internal damage idea.

Is that the bit about permanent injuries for mecha? I like that.

One thing that's going through my mind about changing the way mecha recovery works is that the game isn't always given a clear indication of whether a particular battle was won or lost by the PC. One could attach recovery to the salvage code, but there are certain missions and situations which don't give salvage. I'll think about this.

Offline Michael

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« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2008, 03:16:59 am »
Quoting: Joseph Hewitt
One thing that's going through my mind about changing the way mecha recovery works is that the game isn't always given a clear indication of whether a particular battle was won or lost by the PC.

One other issue -- while I've never experienced this myself, I understand the game presently ends a battle as soon as the player character is down.  That would need to be changed, since if allies are present, they might prevail without the PC and recover his mech.

Quoting: Joseph Hewitt
One could attach recovery to the salvage code, but there are certain missions and situations which don't give salvage.

You'd need new markers in the code anyway.  Sometimes salvage would be refused on the understanding that the employer owns it, in which case recovery of the player's own mecha would be permitted.  In other cases, there's no time to recover the salvage before scavengers get to it.

Offline Erathoniel

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« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2008, 02:47:43 pm »
Well, the game could be changed to allow the battle to continue, or be simulated. Missions not giving salvage would probably have a easy excuse. Mecha totally deestroyed, or scattered, or stolen.

Offline draconuszero

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« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2008, 07:13:01 pm »
Regarding ejection, it could possibly be set as a roll where if you fail you do not eject, and if you really do bad you eject without the canopy or whatever opening up, thus going splat...

Offline Erathoniel

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« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2008, 07:31:14 pm »
Like in Titans of Steel?

Eject failure 89/56. ARRGHHH!!!

HP Low 48/92.

All it needs is the bloodcurdling yell/scream.

Offline palefire

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« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2008, 08:37:15 pm »
That's the cue for miracle/sacrifice/or both in anime world.

Warning Warning All System Critical
"Masculin Sidecharacter! Can you hear me? You must eject!"
"Can't, it's destroyed."
"Hang on there, Maincharacter is on the way."
"No. Save your self.... Tell Nevershowedupwife that...."
"NO! Tell her yourself! We will get through this!"
"Too late... I will ram the (gunfire)... don't waste the chance"
"Masculin, Masculin! No! Masculin....!"
"This is for you, (inaudible)... (explosion)."

Offline Erathoniel

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« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2008, 08:51:09 pm »
Wait, you just gave me an idea. Relationship systems.

Need sleep.