getting more skill slots via installing cyberware

[mix1]

GearHead wiki says:
"You can get more skill slots by increasing your Knowledge attribute from experience, installing Knowledge enhancing cyberware ((once Joseph fixes that bug)), or taking the Savant talent." (http://gearhead.chaosforge.org/wiki/index.php?tit le=Guides:Personal_Combat)

but, when I install Synaptic Booster (+5 Knowledge) (or other knowledge cyberware), I see 13/19 in the Learn New Skill menu, as it was before, despite
the Knowledge stat is increased from 12 to 17.

Used GearHead version is 1.100.

What is wrong?

[Anticheese]

Quoting: The Wiki and mix1's post

once Joseph fixes that bug

It's a bug.

You even said it in your post.

--

JH, can you comment on this? I've found it quite annoying/strange myself.

[mix1]

If that's so, where I can get a patch?

[Anticheese]

There is no patch. Sorry.

Chances are that JH (the developer) will reply to this thread, so please have a bit of patience.

In the meantime, just enjoy the game and remember to either focus on a more narrow set of skills or add a few extra points to knowledge.

[mix1]

I really enjoy the game, but that's somewhat annoying. As for adding points to knowledge, I don't have any skill based on it, so it's impossible. And I don't have enough experience to learn next (Savant) talent, as for now.
EDIT: Oops, no, I have Mecha Engineering[Kn] and Robotics[Kn]. I'll try to improve it.

[Joseph Hewitt]

If I remember correctly, there's a strange reason why this bug is very hard to fix, but looking through the code for GH2 I can't figure out what that might have been. There may be something different in GH1, possibly... no, I just checked, and it looks the same. Hmm.

I'll get on this.

[Albijoe]

You could always buy a skill & take the penalty  (there's ALWAYS a way to get a skill).  then up that skill, get your knowledge point, and get your original skill back, all through massive amounts of cash at the trainer.

[Erathoniel]

What about having cyberware that specifically increases skill slots? Of course, it's not terribly worth it.

[Anticheese]

Especially considering that's the intended purpose behind knowledge enhancing cyberware...

[Michael]

Quoting: mix1

but, when I install Synaptic Booster (+5 Knowledge) (or other knowledge cyberware), I see 13/19 in the Learn New Skill menu, as it was before, despite
the Knowledge stat is increased from 12 to 17.

Used GearHead version is 1.100.

What is wrong?

GH1 tracks two different values for each of your stats -- an underlying base value and a current value.  The current value fluctuates with temporary conditions, like morale, hunger, and some statuses.  You can recognize the base value since it's the level at which the stat number is dark green.  When the current level is higher than base, the number is light green, and when the current level is lower than base, it is red.

Cyberware is accounted in GH1 like a temporary condition, and in GH1 the skill limit depends on your base stat.  So Cyberware cannot count towards your skill limit, although it does make Knowledge-based skill rolls better.

It wouldn't be too hard to hack GH1 to use the current stat for calculating the skill limit.  You'd just change "PC^.STat[ STAT_Knowledge ]" to "CStat(PC,STAT_Knowledge)" in the function NumberOfSkillSlots() in file ghchar.pp.

But I don't think this is a good idea, because that would make the Skill Slot number fluctuate with your morale.  The present code only makes sense under the assumption that the Knowledge stat used may rise but will never fall.

Even if we defined a "CyStat(PC,stat)" function that counted cyberware but not anything else, Knowledge could still drop if the player installs Kn-hurting cyberware, or swaps in cyberware with a lower Kn bonus.

(Although the assumption is already violated in the official version in one place.  GARU serum reduces your base Knowledge.)

[Anticheese]

Quoting: Michael

Even if we defined a "CyStat(PC,stat)" function that counted cyberware but not anything else, Knowledge could still drop if the player installs Kn-hurting cyberware, or swaps in cyberware with a lower Kn bonus.

That makes sense, otherwise you might hit potential exploits like someone buying the +5 kn brainware, learning several skills and then swapping out to Predator Instincts.

[macksting]

Quoting: Michael

Even if we defined a "CyStat(PC,stat)" function that counted cyberware but not anything else, Knowledge could still drop if the player installs Kn-hurting cyberware, or swaps in cyberware with a lower Kn bonus.

I dunno. I kinda like the idea that Kn-hurting cyberware could be a pain when trying to learn even familiar skills, if you've diversified your skill list too greatly. Why shouldn't somebody who's medicated or enhanced into stupidity have a hard time learning?
I'm sure there's an answer. I just don't know it.

[mix1]

Quoting: Michael

that would make the Skill Slot number fluctuate with your morale

Kn current value depends on morale? Why? I don't see any reason for that. Shouldn't we define knowledge as a "ability to learn anything", a kind of meta-skill? Already learned skills, then, would be in general kept. Too-many-skills XP penalty would be applied against PC's base knowledge+cyberware knowledge at current moment of the time.

Quoting: Anticheese

That makes sense, otherwise you might hit potential exploits like someone buying the +5 kn brainware, learning several skills and then swapping out to Predator Instincts.

Reflexes and Knowledge ain't strictly dependent game stats, so I see nothing wrong with that.

EDIT: just constructed self-conscious two-headed robot.

[Anticheese]

Quoting: mix1

Kn current value depends on morale? Why? I don't see any reason for that. Shouldn't we define knowledge as a "ability to learn anything", a kind of meta-skill? Already learned skills, then, would be in general kept. Too-many-skills XP penalty would be applied against PC's base knowledge+cyberware knowledge at current moment of the time.

You are misinterpreting what he is saying.

What he is saying is that the knowledge stat (and all the others for that matter) are slightly affected by your morale. Good morale will not give you an extra skill slot, but it will give you a hand with knowledge based skills.

And grats on the 2 headed robot. However it pales in comparison to my one headed 2 turreted sentient robot.

[Joseph Hewitt]

Quoting: Anticheese

That makes sense, otherwise you might hit potential exploits like someone buying the +5 kn brainware, learning several skills and then swapping out to Predator Instincts.

But then, you'd still get the XP penalty for improving those skills. Since skill training is something that the PC has to keep doing over the length of his career, I think that using the current Knowledge level could be a good idea.