Author Topic: GH1 Mecha Packs  (Read 1693 times)

Offline JohnnyDmonic

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« on: September 28, 2007, 10:46:53 PM »
Rapidshare link to Rar file

There are two RAR files inside this rar:

1) onepointonecompliant.rar contains a bunch of my own mecha designs *

2) designsyahoo.rar is a bunch of mecha made by other people on the old yahoo group that I thought were fairly well balanced and enjoyed throwing into my design folder

Between the two it should about double the number of design files in your design folder.


* I finished updating, tweaking, rebalancing and weeding out my mecha designs.  I got rid of a few designs that were simply overpowered, tweaked a few so that their PV's were lower, and removed overpowering weaponry from a few more.  I still ended up a little 'top-heavy' with more class 7+ mecha than there technically should have been, but there are a lot of new 4-5's and a few small mecha too.

Things I will note:
There are some stupid mecha that I didn't take out because they amuse me.  Namely the Kong, the MothMecha, GalaxyTurtle, and the Gojira.  All Class 10's.  They're not very good, and they die easy by the time they show up (high PV) but they amuse me.  Feel free to remove them.

There is one somewhat over-powered mech that I left in, mostly to have a high-power random opponent.  That would be the Savage.  The weaponry isn't neccesarily over the top, but the stats are.

There are several other high-powered mecha that may be unbalancing.  If you find your enjoyment of the game impaired, feel free to remove some of them.  Also, please let me know.  I'm interested in eventually trying to create a full Mod pack with extra plots and missions, and some changes to the ADV file.  I'd like to make it reasonably balanced, although my personal balance point may be a bit higher than the author originally intended.

Mecha I'm particularly happy with and would like feedback on:
Pirate.txt
Centurion.txt
Grunt.txt
Jester.txt

At some point I should go through and make sure the company designations on all of them make sense, but that's sort of secondary to shaking them down and ensuring that they're right for their PV and not overpowering.

Any feedback is appreciated.

Offline JohnnyDmonic

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« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2007, 12:54:30 PM »
Four more mecha, for anyone who is interested, I'm quite happy with all four, although they're all slightly high-end.

packtwo.rar on rapidshare

Offline JohnnyDmonic

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« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2007, 08:29:07 PM »
Not sure if anyone is interested in this stuff, but this is the current version of my modified PCEquipment and MekEquipment files.  Some of the additions might be a little over the top, but a lot are just there for flavortext.  

I haz a flavor.  It's text.  You can haz a flavor if you want.

On rapidshare as usual

If you want to use them make copies, or move your current PCEquipment.txt and MekEquipment.txt files out of your design folder, and unrar these in their place.  If you find a piece of equipment you like, or one you think is potentionally game-breaking, let me know.

Offline Onisuzume

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« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2007, 06:54:19 AM »
I'm working on a mecha pack myself as well.
Will take some time though.
And looking at over 50 txt files.

Offline JohnnyDmonic

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« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2007, 12:20:59 PM »
Neat!  I love seeing more mecha.  Also, it gives me a chance to type of out some things I've been thinking about.  Not that you neccesarily need to hear them, but someone might be interested.  Here's my take on how to make balanced mecha.  Obviously in most cases there are exceptions to the rule, but they're just that, exceptions.  They shouldn't dominate the field.

Per the rules files:
Cockpit armor never higher than 2
(I extend this rule to engine and gyro as well, since we never see any of the original mecha higher)

The rules state that all engines must be equal to the class of the mecha (although I could have sworn that I've seen original game mecha with engines lower than their class.  I let that slide as maybe their manufacturer skimped on the engine. Or older tech.  Still, I stick to nothing with a bigger engine.)  Also, HighOutput engines shouldn't be more than 1/5th of new mecha.  It *is* a hot new technology, but it shouldn't be everywhere.

Gyros, generally shouldn't go above 3.  I broke this rule repeatedly to get certain ungainly large mecha down to reasonable MV's, but I consider that a side-effect of the very large mecha.   The only original mecha with higher than a 3 are the Excel at 4, Savin at 4, Zerosaiko at 4, Chameleon at 4, Chimentero at 5.  Basically the *super* mobile get 4's, and some of the truly huge mecha also have room for truly huge gyros to compensate.
Groundhuggers, Groundcars, Areofighters, Hoverfighters shouldn't get gyros except for special cases.  Groundcars can use the 'advanced suspension' (rename of gyro...2 I think it was, on one of the original groundcars).  And I'll admit I added a 'Fly-By-Wire System' to a certain high end areofighter in my mecha pack.  But most of them shouldn't have them.  Gyros are specifically for legged mecha.

A mecha can only install modules or equip armor at most 1 class larger than itself.  (that's hardcoded) The body must always be equal to the class of the mecha.

All original zoanoids have the Cpit in the head.  This should remain true of at least 99% of additional zoanoids.

No more than 1/4 of Battroids risk having the Cpit in the head.

All weapons should balance against equivilant weapons in the STC_Default file.  The exception:

Mecha typically have a 'signature' element, whatever it is that made their design stand out enough to be manufactured.  For some it's high MV, or high armor, or a particular weapon system.  'Signature' weapons since they're custom built for a mecha and not mass produced like the STC items can justify being as much as 5 points higher spread between DC, Range, BV, ACC and extra Type.

Class 5 is the average for Battroids, zoanoids might be a little lower.

Class 7 is the big mecha.  Anything higher than 7 is ludicrously mountain-toweringly big.  I know I've made my mecha pack a little top-heavy in the 8, 9, and 10s.   But realistically there shouldn't be but a few of those compared to a majority of 4's and 5's.  

4's tend to either be cheaper and slightly older technology (Century, Claymore, Condor), or the newer cutting edge technology.  

5's are generally dependable well built, moderately armored.  (corsair at the low end, Daum II, Vadel, etc)

3's are typically recon mecha (Domino, Alba) or high tech frontline units from Mars or the L5's (like the Neko, Chameleon, or the Luna II)

6's are typically beefy heavy-armor units (maanji, Hariseng)

and 7's are the big boys big toys like the Chimentaro or Savin.

Point Value:
All but the absolute best mecha should have at least 1 design flaw (Savin...uhh...Gigas maybe.  Thats about all I can think of).  Excessively heavy equipped armor, a cheap but hefty missile pack that puts them overwieght and loses a point of MV/TR , or a component that if equipped instead of installed would give back a point of MV/TR. Mecha Engineering exists for a reason.  If a pure mecha jock wants a super mech, he has to find one the old fashion way, or win one.

Likewise, almost no mech should start with a TR 0.  If you have to, leave off the TarComp entirely.  If the mech is so light wieght that even that wont push it to negative 1, butter up that bacon and pack some wieght on.  I don't like leaving the sensors off, but that's another option for lowering TR.

Overall most mecha should start in the -1 to -3 range on both MV and TR. and be able to get a free point by carefully rebalancing their load or dropping uneccesary equipment.  Heavy battroids might go to -4 MV.  Areofighters, Groundhuggers, Orinthoids, Hoverfighters etc, should add their standard MV penalty to that number (areofighters get an additional -3, Hoverfighters -2, etc etc)

Pointwise:
A low-end mecha should cost in the same range at the BuruBuru 100k to 200k.  A decent mech should hit 500-600k starting value (including the above number fudging.  Once rebalanced it should be worth 700-900)(can't think of a good example..Vadel?  Daum?).  The truly high end should top out at about 2 million (Same range as the Savin).  Oversized mecha (8,9,10) that are also high end might go 2.5 mil to 3 mil, but they shouldn't be expotentially more expensive than the Savin.
The only thing that should push a mech any higher than the 2 million range is Nukes (Blast/Hyper). (or the slightly less expensive Core Cannon Line/Hyper combo)  If there were a technology out there that did as much (or more) damage than Nukes, and wasn't Nukes, people would already be using it.

Another note:
Mass fudging:  We all like fudge, but too much will make you sick.
Don't abuse the Mass modifier.  If a mech has lowered mass on it's limbs it probably isn't going to have full armor on that location.  Or if it does, it probably only has a -2 or -4 mass.  -2 and -4 are the general 'high tech space age materials' numbers for the original mecha.  Any more than that represents something special for the most part. (Savin) Most equipped armor shouldn't have it's wieght lowered, because it disrupts the balance and reduces the significance of those mechs that do have it.  I make an exception for Wings and Wing Armor if you use it, since that's one catagory that you know they concentrate on getting wieght down.   Likewise if something is built Tonka-Tough it should probably wiegh it's full amount.  Maybe even more.

Zoanoids:
Zoanoids don't get equiped armor for the most part.  If you do give them some, make it pretty low value generally.  The original mecha didn't get it for a reason. (I broke this rule specifically to have one mech with mid-range zoanoid armor available, but I think most zoa's should have at most class 2 or *maybe* 3 armor).  (I also wrote a couple of *really* big zoanoids with heavy armor.  They sacrificed their zoanoid high MV for it though.)

(Honestly, most battroids shouldn't have higher than class 3 to 4 anyway.  Any higher is the special mechs like, well, the Savin.  Or the beefy boys like the Hariseng who don't get much Mass modifers so have to accept the lowered MV for their armor.)

Think that's most everything...weapons, armor, mass, point value, MV/TR, balance against the STC_Default, gyros, engines....

Oh!

Designations.  Most mecha designations should probably fit the pre-existing companies.  I created one new company (Loman Corporation, designation LoCo) for some of my sillier mecha, but there are already plenty of players.

Almost all zoanoids should be from BioCorp's Biometrics line, designation TSD-.

ITM made a lot of the older first generation mecha.  So if you're making older-style tonka-tough brutes they're a good choice.

CYB made the monstrous, a pre-zero mecha, so I assume they don't exist anymore.  Anything from them should be equally outdated technology.

Okay, I'm done.

Offline Onisuzume

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« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2007, 02:24:49 PM »
Well, I dediced that almost all of the gun I'll use will be Standard Template Constructs(STC), so that shouldn't be much of a problem.
Though I *am* adding more guns...

Still; they're based off guns from an existing system, so it should be more or less balanced.

Oh, and sometimes I *will* fudge around with the gun mass in certain mecha to keep the weight even across the arms/guns.

Another note: all the mecha I make are designed for GH1.
And they'll mostly be from the same corp. (depending on the number of different vehicles that is)
Already have about 4 corps planned.

Offline JohnnyDmonic

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« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2007, 04:11:22 PM »
Okay, I told myself I wasn't going to post any more mechs until I had more than a handful, but these two amused me mightily, so here's a rar file on rapidshare of them.  One is an interesting battroid in the little-loved 1 million PV range, the other is an overpriced monstrosity that breaks pretty much every rule up above,  but I actually kinda like it.  And yes, I watch/play ZOIDS. <.<

New!

Also if Rapidshare doesn't work for anyone, let me know.  I can always use Sendspace or maybe google documents.  I've been avoiding filling the old yahoo group because of both space issues and people would have to be logged into yahoo to get them.

Also also:  Anyone who can spot and name all the jokes gets a free internet cookie.

Offline Joseph Hewitt

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« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2007, 04:43:04 PM »
That's a really good guide for mecha design. You should consider adding it to the wiki.

Offline JohnnyDmonic

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« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2007, 06:59:56 PM »
Quoting: Joseph Hewitt
That's a really good guide for mecha design. You should consider adding it to the wiki.


I was thinking about doing just that, and after looking around I don't think it really duplicates any of the 'how to scavenge parts' or 'how the design formulas work' Guides, so I added it.  It probably needs to be added to Guide link still, and there's a whole bunch of internal links that I'd like to add to it eventually, but it's a lot cleaner looking than my first attempt with the 'How to test' page.

Design File Guidelines

Oh, and because I wanted to have a link to it, I ended up adding a short page on the STC_Default file.

Offline Erathoniel

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« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2007, 07:31:28 PM »
I plan to make a really-light high MV battroid, probably SF1, and most likely expensive. No armor, fast, with light guns. Spot Weakness and Mecha Piloting heaven.

Here it is. Please fix.

Battroid 2
Name <Fly>
Desig <FLY-13>
Type <GROUND SPACE>
Factions <PRIVA CRIHN>

desc <The Fly is almost unarmed, but very fast.>


sub
Head
   Armor 1
   Mass -4
   sub
      Sensor 6

      STC LAS-3
      name <Light Intercept Laser>
      type <INTERCEPT>

      CPit
   end

Body
   Armor 1
   Mass -4
   sub
      Mount

      ArcJet 6
   end

Arm
   Name <Right Arm>
   Size 2
   Armor 1
   Mass -4
   sub
      Hand
   end

Arm
   Name <Left Arm>
   Size 2
   Armor 1
   Mass -4
   sub
      Hand
      inv
         Melee 7
         Name <Mace>
         Speed 1
      end

Leg
   Name <Right Leg>
   Size 2
   Armor 1
   Mass -4
   sub
      ArcJet 6
   end

Leg
   Name <Left Leg>
   Size 2
   Armor 1
   Mass -4
   sub
      ArcJet 6
   end
end

Offline JohnnyDmonic

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« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2007, 12:19:57 PM »
That seems pretty well written to me.  For a scale 1 it's great, although with Size 2 and Mass -4 you'll end up with most of the modules at zero wieght. I'd probably suggest changing that to Mass -3 to avoid being a Magical Massless Mecha.

Also, you'll want a *much* bigger weapon.  At scale 1 you're looking at a DCx2 for actual damage.  Meaning against an average Battroid with a 50 DP head it'd take approximately 9 shots to take the head off after winnowing through all the armor. (with the defense laser, which should be saved for defense anyway.  But you want to take the head out before moving to melee if you because most mech keep their sensors there and that will lower their TR.  Some also have their Tarcomp there, which would lower it further.  Or the Cpit, in which case, it's all gravy) (Not counting the criticals, which will be higher with a Scale 1 vs. a Scale 2 but on *average* it'll still take a lot of shots to get where you're going.)  Also, if going with a fast mecha with a single weapon, you want it to be very high speed, so that you're not wasting movement without any weapon to fire.  Also, you'll have to be pretty high skill to compensate for the running/full move modifiers to your aim, but they'll also lower your opponents chance to hit you, so probably worth it rather than standing still and getting swatted.

Flight is better than skim or running for the additional -3 to hit you.  In fact, if making a scale 1 is your thing, it might be worth making the old 'legless battroid'.  The speed is limited due to the hard-limits on battroid flight speed, but it's not that low, and at scale 1 it's all about not getting hit.

Meanwhile, with Size 2, Armor 1, A single scale 2 DC 2 hit will take out at least a limb, and possibly the limb plus the torso.

Having an intercept weapon is a very good idea, though.

The two Scale 1 battroids in the original files are Class 2 and 3, but I prefer to think of them as the BuruBuru of Scale 1 mecha.   I figure, if you're going to want to create a *real* scale 1 mecha, try for the Savin of the Scale 1 world.  Or, since you mentioned speed and manvuerability, the Vadel.  Sooner or later most mecha will get hit, to really make a working Scale 1 assasin mecha, it needs to be able to survive at least 1 mid-power hit (at least if it takes it on a limb instead of the torso)

Here's where I'd go with your idea, if I were writing it.  Your own personal preference might be for something different, these are just ideas.

Actually, I'll make that another post, I want to go test a few things first.

Offline JohnnyDmonic

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« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2007, 12:50:53 PM »
I made my first attempt at a high end, fast, manueverable Scale 1 battroid.   Then I created a renown 100 pilot with 20 reflex, 19 speed, Initiative 10, Mecha Piloting 12, Fighting 10, Weaponry 12, Gunnery 12.  Talents Sniper, Born To Fly, Stunt Driver.  The mecha has an ECM 5, and a Beam Shield on a tail.  Legs were replaced with 2 storage pods with ArcJets in them, since if Storage pods get hit the damage doesn't blow through to the torso, although they have no DP of their own to protect the internals.  Still, get hit, lose speed, or get hit, lose torso?  The body, head, and arms have Class 2 equipped armor.

Weapons are a DC 5, Range 6, Beamgun, ACC 2, Armorpiercing recharge 5  and a DC 15 Emelee Armorpiercing Recharge 4 (also a short range intercept laser)

The rest of this is incorrect due to a misplaced closing tag and a lack of attention on my part

Offline JohnnyDmonic

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« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2007, 01:23:14 PM »
Okay, testing again with a scale 1 mecha that was actually scale 1, the results went like this:

Fight against 30-40 scale 1 Dire Wolves?  Torn apart like a t-bone.

Fight against a Longman and Scylla?  Won handily, with damage ranging from 50-500 using DC5x2 armorpiercing beamguns.  Dropped the melee weapon in favor of not ever being in range long enough for it to matter.  Niether opponent landed a hit, but that was with Piloting 12, Stunt Driver, Born to Fly, an ECM, a shield, and an intercept weapon.

Offline JohnnyDmonic

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« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2007, 01:35:57 PM »
Here is my version of a high-end scale 1 legless flying battroid.  In a lot of ways it's almost a (heavily) modified Vadel, in that it follows the same basic design.  Class 5, light (class 2-3) equipped armor, decent module armor, mass reduction, high speed, mid-power weapons.

Note that I changed out the melee weapon for a second rifle.  Unit stats are:

PV: 964,082
MV/TR/Sensor: 0/0/+2

The rifles are worth approximately 175k of that each.  The ECM 5 is approximately the same.  The intercept light laser is worth about 40k.  Removing all of the above drops it to 320k, approximately the price of a Corsair.  So...is an unarmed scale 1 worth a whole Corsair?  Or more fairly, if we give it back it's two rifles is it worth two corsairs?  In the hands of a truly skilled pilot it could easily take out two corsairs, but that same pilot could use a corsair and take out a dozen other corsairs.

On the other hand, we can also examine it by comparing it to itself at scale 2.  At scale 2 with the twin rifle configuration at MV/TR 0/0 it would be worth a PV of approximately 5 million.  So it's 1/5th the size, and unsuprisingly, 1/5th the cost.  Still, that shows us that this *should* be a truly superior Scale 1 mecha.  To test this, I think I'll create a brand new pilot, no bennies, and see if he can survive the arena cuircit with it.

The problems with this unit is at scale 1 it can't pillage equipment from fallen mechs, and until you get the two talents, and a piloting of at least 8-10, any NPC with Blast missiles may be able to one-shot you.

Battroid 5
Scale 1
Name <Fly>
Desig <FLY-13>
%Type <GROUND SPACE>
%Factions <PRIVA CRIHN>

desc <The Fly is lightly armored, but very fast and deadly.>



Mod Head
Size 3
Armor 5
Mass -4
   sub
      Sensor 6

      Beamgun 3
      name <Light Intercept Laser>
      type <INTERCEPT>
      Range 2
      BV 2
      Mass 2

      CPit
   end
   inv
      HeadArmor 3
      Mass -4
   End

Mod Body
Armor 5
Mass -8
   sub
      Mount
      
      ArcJet 9
      OverCharger 7

      Engine 5
      HighOutput

      ECM 5
   end
   Inv
      BodyArmor 3
      Mass -4
   End
Mod Arm
Name <Right Arm>
Size 3
Armor 4
Mass -4
   sub
      Hand
      Inv
         Beamgun 5
         Name <Phase Dart Rifle>
         Range 10
         Type <Armorpiercing>
         Speed 5
         ACC 2
         Mass 8
      End
   end
   Inv
      ArmArmor 2
      Mass -2
   ENd

Mod Arm
Name <Left Arm>
Size 3
Armor 4
Mass -4
   sub
      Hand
      Inv
         Beamgun 5
         Name <Phase Dart Rifle>
         Range 10
         Type <Armorpiercing>
         Speed 5
         ACC 2
         Mass 8
      End
   end
   Inv
      ArmArmor 2
      Mass -2
   End

Mod Storage
Name <Right Thruster Pack>
Size 4
Armor 4
Mass -3
   Sub
      ArcJet 7
   End

Mod Storage
Name <Left Thruster Pack>
Size 4
Armor 4
Mass -3
   Sub
      ArcJet 7
   End

Mod Tail
Size 4
Armor 5
Mass -6
   Sub
      ArcJet 8
   End
   Inv
      TailArmor 2
      Mass -2

      EShield 5
      Mass 2
      DefBonus 3
   End   

Offline Erathoniel

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« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2007, 02:42:04 PM »
That's more of how I wanted it, but it was based off the Strongarm, so it would be fairly poor quality, since I'm fairly rusty to mecha development.