Author Topic: Where does the dating system in Gearhead start? - Debate  (Read 1521 times)

Offline Anticheese

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Where does the dating system in Gearhead start? - Debate
« on: July 30, 2006, 06:59:41 AM »
The Gearhead mythos starts their year system after an apocalyptic world war - The Night of Fire, And GH 1 is set some 11,500 years after said night with GH 2 set about 50 years after GH 1.

What I'd like to do is put some ideas on the table for discussion with the goal of trying to guess when the night of fire happened, And thus learning the setting of Gearhead in A.D.

Now we know that before "The Night", Humans possessed the technology to produce excessivley powerful Mecha, Had interplanetary travel and a stockpile of doomsday weapons, The fact that they had nukes does not help us (We have them now), But I think that we could take a bit of a stab at interplanetary travel and Mecha.

At the moment IP travel is near impossible because we use fuels that are not suitible for the great distances between say, Here and the Moon, At the moment however different fuels are being investigated and according to a Popular Science magazine I have on the table next to me a fuel that would fit the bill is undergoing testing.

So lets say that this fuel will take about 10 years to test, 50 years to bring into affordable mass production, But then what? Missions would be launched towards say, Mars and then out towards the far planets and perhaps even the asteroid belt for prospecting.

I think that no commercial or civilian presence would be established untill viable mineral sources were found, That would take at least 300 years to develop a good sized interplanetary trade network.

Why do I go off in tangents? Remember that the Night of Fire happened after ideological differences (Kind of like the Arm and Core really...) and for war to be possible, Mankind would have needed to be among the planets as a commonplace thing for hundreds of years before things like that become taken for granted, And then the old treaties of Earth might be forgotten and one faction might arm their ships, Only to start a paradoxal arms race that would spark off a war. If anyone here has ever watched the simpons episode where Bart and Lisa are watching the Itchy and Scratchy clip where the cat and mouse keep pulling out progressivly bigger handguns? Thats what I'm talking about.

So by now we have hit roughly 4500-5000 AD and have hit a need for more powerful non nuclear weaponary. This is where Mecha would come in.

With spaceflight being so common and buisinesses wishing to harness the power of trade with greater speed, A manhattan project if you will would have been inevitible - The race to make better engines and forge stronger metals as to keep the ships from crumpling, And perhaps enlarge the cargo hold.

With the materials, power source and engines being around, It would be no surprise for a military to snap up the idea of Mecha as the next big thing, And why wouldent they? They are mobile, Adaptable and look pretty damn cool. The initial Mecha would have been similar to Terminator or Dreadnought armour from the Warhammer 40K games (Think a 40ft tall killing machine), But as time went on and manufacturing processes become perfected, A need for a bigger, stronger and more versatile machine would be found and met.

It is my belief that it would take approximatly 500 years to progress from suits of powered armour to something similar to a Strongarm.

With the invention of true Mecha, Governments would natrually get nervous , One side of the ideological schizm would send an ultimatum, Confident in their military superiority and would then attack.

This is where a second manhattan project would come in, The first race would have been to make space the new cash cow, However with an imminent enemy threat traditional infantry and combat vehicles would become redundant in the face of Mecha, So we now have two or more superpowers fighting an arms race.

This is where I believe the age of superpowers would be named.

This is around 11,000 A.D and after space and indeed Mecha had become commonplace, With all that time two or more sides would become more strongly polarized by the day and war would be inevitable.

From here just piciture Interworld War One.

Deadly isin't it?

Look how far todays armaments have come in such a short space of time, How much damage would 9,000 years worth of millitary research do?

This is just my theroy, But all the same I think that it would be reasonable to assume that the absolute 0 in the Gearhead universes date/time system would be around 11,000 A.D

I would now like to hear your ideas on the topic, Post post and post away.

Edited to fix a few grammatical errors. Too bad I can't fix the title.

Offline SharkD

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Where does the dating system in Gearhead start? - Debate
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2006, 08:06:22 AM »
The answer is 42.

Offline Tung Nguyen

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Where does the dating system in Gearhead start? - Debate
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2006, 07:21:46 AM »
I remember asking if Joseph was interested in implementing an actual day/month/year style clock, starting at an arbitrary date. He wasn't interested.

Oh, and FYI, A.D and B.C. have been superceded by C.E. and B.C.E. (Common Era and Before the Common Era respectively).

Offline Joseph Hewitt

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Where does the dating system in Gearhead start? - Debate
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2006, 05:11:39 PM »
Quoting: Anticheese
The Gearhead mythos starts their year system after an apocalyptic world war - The Night of Fire, And GH 1 is set some 11,500 years after said night with GH 2 set about 50 years after GH 1.

Actually GH1 is only 157 years after the night of fire, and GH2 only 5 years after that. You can view a rough history here:

http://ghwiki.chaosforge.org/index.php/History

How did the world recover so quickly after such a devestating event? In part, it was due to the nature of the event: the nuclear weapons used were advanced and therefore relatively clean; many of the survivors were able to flee to space, only to return later along with their knowledge and resources. It was also because of the nature of the GearHead universe: like the "real robots" shows that inspired it, GH is set in a modernist world. As technology advances the rate of change accelerates.

The night of fire is essentially a symbol of this: in a single day the entire world was unmade.

Given the nature of this universe, I think your projected time for the development of mecha is far too long. From the invention of the atmospheric hydrogen generator (which I think would have been the advancement that made mecha possible) to the development of the first walking battroid would likely have been less than 50 years.

At the time of the Night of Fire there was not a significant civilian population in space. Most of the early stations were military bases; as the competition for resources on Earth heated up and as rocket technology improved, the exploitation of space became economically viable.

Some Martian colonies and the Venus terraforming project were begun by civilian populations hoping to escape from the political situation on Earth; shortly after the night of fire these original populations would become vastly outnumbered by terran refugees.

What technologies did they have during the Age of Superpowers?
- Fusion power was cheap and easy to produce. Fusion generators as small as a few hundred kilograms could be built, and superconductive batteries used to store the energy.
- Genetic engineering was at a fairly high level. Completely new organisms could be designed and created. Near the end of the age biotechnological mecha powered by microfusion organic reactors were created, though none of these entered mass production.
- Therapeutic genetic manipulation was also performed on humans. Enhanced human beings were known as Idealists; several other types of genetically modified human were also created.
- Neural interfaces allowed direct interaction between human minds and computer systems without the need for direct cybernetic linkage.

Personally, I usually think of the Age of Superpowers as happening somewhere around 2200AD-2300AD.

Sabin Stargem

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Where does the dating system in Gearhead start? - Debate
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2006, 05:15:47 PM »
Dead civilizations with advanced technology can really jump-start a researcher's work, especially if the information is available.  Perhaps an scientist found old documents pertaining to the super-fuels and hulls needed for interplanetary travel, and so within 50 years the basics and intermidiate stuff are completed, just in time for our protagonists to start wandering around.   There is also the possibility of transportation methods of already being in place, before the Night of Fire occured, that are somewhat servicable, so that is also another door for the possibility of such advances in a relatively short period of time.

In any case, I feel 11,000 AD is a bit much.  Mostly because it seems like technology is rapidly improving in our current era, and should humanity and it's technology survive up to 11,000 AD, we probably would talking about transcending reality and such, not messing around with war machines that are basically bigger bodies and guns.   I feel that 2,500 AD or thereabouts would work for the Night of Fire.  Our weapons by then probably would be deadly enough to cause a true cataclysm, and we probably would be investigating other planets and working towards interplanetary colonization since the Earth would be just about barren in terms of resources.

Mind you, this is all just conjecture on my part.

Offline peter

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Where does the dating system in Gearhead start? - Debate
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2006, 11:06:28 PM »
I thought the text from the computer in the Ziggurat gave an exact date for the night of fire.

The text is in Series/TS_TEXT_Ziggurat.txt, so you don't have to get there in-game to remind yourself.
...
-==D2351.12.23:98212==- KALLISKHAN PERIMETER BASE
 
  OMEGA "LADON" ACTIVATED, DESTROYED BY ARGOS "V". CEASEFIRE
  WITH IMPERATOR ZETA HAS BEEN CANCELLED. STATIONED AT SOUTH
  BASE; REPAIR CORE TO BE DELIVERED ON D2351.12.26.
 
  !AEGIS PAX EUROPA
 
-==D2351.12.25:98212==- ERROR: NETWORK NOT RESPONDING
-==D2351.12.26:98212==- ERROR: NETWORK NOT RESPONDING
-==D2351.12.27:98212==- ERROR: NETWORK NOT RESPONDING
-==D2351.12.28:98212==- EMERGENCY POWER EXHAUSTED
                        INITIATING MAINFRAME SHUTDOWN


 This doesn't explicitly say that Christmas (Dec 25) 2351 was the night of fire, but I interpreted it that way.  It does imply that there were a few Argoseyers in that year, and it's unlikely that the tech for making bio-mecha would be lost if they were more widespread.  And before the night of fire, they would have spread.

Offline Joseph Hewitt

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Where does the dating system in Gearhead start? - Debate
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2006, 04:16:42 AM »
Quoting: peter
This doesn't explicitly say that Christmas (Dec 25) 2351 was the night of fire, but I interpreted it that way.

The message was meant to be ambiguous in that way.

Offline Anticheese

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Where does the dating system in Gearhead start? - Debate
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2006, 04:51:41 AM »
Thanks for clearing up everything JH

Offline Joseph Hewitt

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« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2006, 09:10:48 AM »
Quoting: Tung Nguyen
I remember asking if Joseph was interested in implementing an actual day/month/year style clock, starting at an arbitrary date. He wasn't interested.

Actually, I'm not entirely uninterested. For GH2 I hope to replace the current "Day 1, 13:46:07" clock with a real day/month/year one, measuring time by the NT calendar. I don't know what to do about the months though- keep them the same as the real world, switch to a 10-month system, use the Discordian calendar...