GH2: Game Balance Issues?

[Vair]

Blah, I hate it when lack of time takes one away from his interests, but now when I am back for a bit, I'll share my opinion on mysticism and other ideas made so far.

As much as - like I've mentioned - I am not that fond of generic stat buff I've liked the idea of restoration of HP/MP and morale quite much (although I think that HP gained that way should be of rather symbolic amount in comparison with complete regeneration of MP). Also, negative hp during the fight is a really good idea too, showing how much determined, diehard, in control of his body/vitality/whatever the character is.

Other than that, I guess the mysticism is the most plot-oriented skill. Ideas of that were presented before, even in my post and I believe that's where the skill should be most noticeable.

Also, because I feel like that, more ideas of plot/mechanics use:
Different cults, some of which being rather hermetic and rather hard to understand and communicate with without understanding of terms and zen/mystical metaphors they use. Some of them may be even rather radical and pose a threat to 'unenlightened' individual.

Quest related objects/buildings/machines of the far past, Pre-Zero era, alien origin or whatever - one's which are technological, but of complexity of design slowly touching paranormal concepts for the researchers of current age and the ones knowledge of use which is only found in mystical writings.

Just a simple possibility of scamming people for small amount of cash/simple items or win religious arguments to personal gain - just because someone has great mystical knowledge doesn't mean he's all good and pure monk.

Participation in some sort of psychic research/experiment, providing data of how brain and the rest of the organism functions in the states of altered consciousness (meditative ones for example) etc. Psychic skills will not exist in Gearhead world but possibility of people still researching and trying to develop such is quite great and realistic, I think.

Just a hidden, general modification of rolls - increased chance of failures and critical hits. Isn't just helping buff but provides slight and amusing difference in the gameplay for mystic characters (derived from the IRL belief of some that spiritually developing people process their karma faster to get free from it's bounds).

Maybe one day, in the future when/if PC-created factions are implemented, starting his own organization/sect would be dependent also on Mysticism, ability to provide certain mystical world-view and ideology that would appeal to some individuals.

Edit: Also, I forgot about survival:
More body parts to cut out from the creature, allowing to make full set of simple clothes (although people should have quite some problem with it if on some spinner the guy who will approach them will look like middle-age barbarian), possibility to use creature's poisonous properties and temporarily poison melee, edged, non-beam weapons.

After losing a battle, a greater chance to get to the nearest hospital instead of death (is that what you meant Euchrejack?) would seem interesting and helpful for those who aren't fond of save-scumming. Some text about making improvised repairs etc from whatever one found around or - in combination with Medicine roll - making some bandages etc which stopped PC from dying long enough for help to arrive.

[EuchreJack]

You had my idea on survival correct Vair.  There is a lot of reasons survival should govern (or at least help) the chance of...survival. 

Whether it be cutting off one's foot to bait away that nasty creature while you crawl off, or turning off the heat on one's spacesuit so they have the energy to send off one last transmission when a mecha approaches them, there are a lot of really cool survival-based reasons a player could end up in the hospital instead of dead.

[Ephafn]

OK, there is a lot to comment on this thread, so I'll try to be organized... 

Final death: Since your save doesn't get erased on full death, I find that the situation where you are not-quite-dead are a bigger penalty as they come with a permanent injury. I would suggest fully removing final death, but instead making permanent injuries more common, or maybe add semi-permanent injuries which can be healed by doctors, but at a very high cost (around 100'000 or so). Heroism could help you avoid permanent injuries ("just a flesh wound"). Oh, and cyberware should have a chance of being damage (needing replacement) when you "die" in personal mode, in a similar fashion to getting your mecha junked.

Also, in my previous and current games, the only time I ever reloaded from a save was when my initial lancemate died (or when I died myself). I would have to say that this is the only situation which you cannot come back from. Mercenaries and others are fair game, but the first lancemate have more of an impact. I would extend the contractual immortality to them, but then some new balancing mechanism would have to be added as they cannot use cyberware.


Science: Science, beside robots, is a purely content-dependent skill. It's usefulness is directly linked to how much content it gets. A way to make it more useful would be to add new loot that can only be obtain using the Science skill on dead robots. That loot should be good enough at all points in the game to be worth a skill, and should not be overshadowed by items you can readily buy. This link to the invention system, as the loot could simply be made the ingredient for it. An idea I had would be to have items like "Ultra-light alloy", "superconductor coil", "micro fission core", which could be permanently attached to mecha parts to improve them, a little like add-ons, of course with a limit of one per part.


Survival: Survival is pretty much the equivalent of Science, but for natural creatures instead of robots. I have only ever used in GH1, but from what I could see from the content files, it still isn't a worthwhile skill. You get what? A good shield, a good grenade, good foods, some cash and some XP. The XP can easily be bought from a trainer, and you would get more cash by taking up shopping instead. I'd prefer to see Survival gets more single use loot, preferably for effects that are not achievable otherwise. Examples could be food which restore SP or MP, glands which refill your batteries and fluid which give some kind of one time buff.


Mysticism: Mysticism is the exact same boat as Science and Survival. One idea I had to make Mysticism unique would be to play with the relation it seems to have with artifacts. Many artifacts in the GH universe seem to be understandable only through Mysticism, examples being the crystal skull. So why not require Mysticism to unlock the full potential of the artifacts? Each artifact could get an upgraded version which could only be reached with a successful (hard) Mysticism roll, with a limit of one roll a day.

Another idea I had about Mysticism come from its interpretation as being the specialty of meditative monks. Mysticism could give you access to mantras, which when activated (only one active at a time) would give you some bonus, but drains your MP. The active mantra could get turn off only after a given delay, or when MP reaches zero. Then either the Mysticism skill could be used to unlock more powerful mantras, or would slow down the MP drain.

Some mantras ideas I had, together with the requirement to be able to use them:
Concentration (requires Spiritual > 0) Repair +1, Medicine +1, Speed -5.
Bloodlust (requires Passionate > 20, Mysticism > 5) Mecha Fighting +2, Close Combat +4, Mecha Piloting -2, Dodge -4.
Fist of Steel (requires Close Combat > 5, Mysticism > 5) Fist DC +5.
One with the Universe (requires Spiritual = 100, Mysticism > 10) All stats +5 (huge MP drain).
Rising Anger (requires the Badass talent) Drain morale.
Eagle sight (requires Mysticism > 5, Awareness > 5) Perception +5.
Rabbit motto (requires Wangta > 0) Speed +10, All skills -5.

Just my suggestion for a "buff skill" Mysticism that isn't actually magic, but really impressive self-control.



EDIT: Science/Mysticism/Survival are also currently quiet useless for lancemates, as you can only use them (with the lancemate skill value) when in a safe spot. This is even true when controlling the lancemate in tactics mode. I would suggest that any "s" skills that lancemates AI doesn't use by itself (like Repair/Medicine) should be usable by the main character with the best lancemate skill value, and that in all situations.

[Joseph Hewitt]

Lots of good comments here, I'm going to ignore them for a minute and tell you about my idea for ECM. What if ECM acted as portable cover? This cover would not stack with actual cover, like trees or smoke, but it'd be very useful in space. One point of cover is provided per tile of range, up to a maximum of the ECM rating. So, a Class 2 ECM system would provide 2 points of cover as long as the spotter were at least 2 tiles away.

If this were Gundam technology, the cover would apply to the firing unit as well as to enemies. I think, though, that in GH it'll just apply to enemies... though it might be interesting if it applied to both. What do you think? If this was used, ECM would need an on/off switch.

As for Electronic Warfare... for now, relegate it back to preventing mecha status effects + the future promise of being the skill used to operate special mecha systems. Maybe an EW roll could lower the energy point cost of the long range scanner.

[Ephafn]

As for Electronic Warfare... for now, relegate it back to preventing mecha status effects + the future promise of being the skill used to operate special mecha systems. Maybe an EW roll could lower the energy point cost of the long range scanner.

Didn't Electronic Warfare used to control how likely you were to inflict status effects in GH1? Right now in GH2 I get the feeling it is almost impossible to deal status effects against enemies with a decent EW score. Giving back that feature could compensate for removing the ECM use, and help make it a more specialized skill, as you would be encouraged to give status effect weapons to pilots with EW.

[plllizzz]

Maybe go with an easy way for now

just make the ECM's distrupt enemy sensors and long range scanners

so a -ECMClass to enemy SE value

pretty balanced I think, and doesn't center the game on having the best ECM gear ever, while giving element of surprise and additional protection from missiles

[Frumple]

I would seriously, seriously like to see ECM function as portable coverage, if that's a potential option. It would mean finally being able to freaking use stealth to its maximum potential -- or at all, in the case of space battles. Violent ninja murder would soon follow. High class ECM + long range weapon + ninjitsu = +10 gunnery roll, always, providing you have sufficient stealth. That would be absolutely huge. Have you seen what a ninjitsu'd mecha blunderbuss does to people? It's incredible.

As for EW and future mecha systems... maybe. It would depend on what systems it interacted with and how powerful they were. Regulating EW to a mecha-scale resistance roll for the short term would be kinda' gimpy for a single skill... scale zero has toughness, which does the same thing and boosts your HP. On the flip side, mecha-scale status effects will wreck your expletive considerably quicker than most personal scale ones, for all that personal scale ones seem to tend to be a bit more likely to eventually kill you, so maybe it's comparable, I'unno.

[Kaeoschassis]

I would seriously, seriously like to see ECM function as portable coverage, if that's a potential option. It would mean finally being able to freaking use stealth to its maximum potential -- or at all, in the case of space battles. Violent ninja murder would soon follow. High class ECM + long range weapon + ninjitsu = +10 gunnery roll, always, providing you have sufficient stealth. That would be absolutely huge. Have you seen what a ninjitsu'd mecha blunderbuss does to people? It's incredible.

You're starting to scare me a little bit...


Regardless, I like the portable cover idea a LOT. Right now the stealth skill's applications do seem too limited for me to justify using a skill slot on it, which is a shame, 'cuz there's something about Giant Robot Ninjas (c) that makes me really warm and fuzzy inside. I love playing stealth-types in rougelikes anyway, and I'd love to give it more of a shot in GH2.

Making the ECM apply to both the spotter and the user would somewhat diminish its usefulness for ninjas, though. I'm wondering if there's some other way it could be balanced that wouldn't so immediately penalize the user? Remember Titans of Steel? You could use your ECM, but you'd better be sure you had enough juice to run the damned thing. That sort of setup seems a little more complicated than necessary for Gearhead, but perhaps overusing it could deal overload or something along those lines?

What sort of 'special mecha systems' would EW users get to play with, might I ask? That opens up a lot of potential. A lot of very complicated potential, but still... xD

[Forethought]

Cover modifies incoming attack rolls, and also allows for stealth checks to prevent being detected. Portable cover would essentially be the Improved Invisibility spell from D&D. Would not "Cloaking Device" be the more appropriate name for a component with this function?

[JohnnyDmonic]

I really like the idea of ECM as portable cover, although I think giving it a visible ring to show the area of effect, even if it's the opposing side's ECM(one assumes sensors can't penetrate the ECM field, but it'd be fairly obvious that there was one operating) would be handy.

Maybe for a balancing factor for ECM as portable cover would be possibly making the actually active ECM unit unaffected by it.  So other lancemates could hide in it's shadow, but it could still be taken out.  On the other hand that seems pretty limiting to soloists, who would be the most likely to benefit from stealth/cover.  Also, if going with that sort of dedicated ECM platform/command control mecha they'd be more support/lighter armed/armored so they'd be pretty quick pickings which I dunno, could get irritating especially if they're the only thing the enemy can see to shoot.  Or maybe EW or non-active ECM should counter ECM cover?  That might be getting a little excessively complicated.  Whatever, I like the idea definitely, though.

[plllizzz]

OR throw away wielded Beam Shields and make some AOE energy shield system?

[Joseph Hewitt]

It wouldn't be so unbalancing if the cover bonus applied only to weapons fire, not to spotting. As others have said that would be more like a cloaking system than ECM. Assuming each tile is pretty wide (50m), a GearHead battle map would only be 2.5km across, which should be visible sighting distance for a 15m tall robot.

[Frumple]

An'stealth goes back to useless 80+% of the time. *sad*

Better balanced, yes, but still a little disheartening. Oh well. A fellow can dream, I guess...

---

So... cloaking system. Can have, yes/no?

And is that official numbers on distance there? *waggles eyebrows*

[Joseph Hewitt]

Not official numbers on distance, no. Sorry.

[Joseph Hewitt]

Here's an idea I had today, but I don't know what other people will think of it. The damage caused by high-DC weapons tends to be overkill. Might it be better to reduce the damage curve a bit, so that more DC is still better but it tops out a little lower?