GH2: Criminal & Antisocial PCs

[Joseph Hewitt]

Reading through Burzmali's playthrough, it's strikingly obvious that there isn't much for criminally-inclined PCs to do in GH2 as of yet. Just as bad, even if you do manage to pull a spectacular heist, the game doesn't respond to it in any meaningful way.

I'd say that antisocial behavior in GH can be divided into three categories:

• Criminal acts are things that are against the law. They'll get you in trouble with the police, but are easily overlooked by the average citizen.
• Bastard acts are things which might not be against the law, but which won't make you any friends either. These will probably get you on bad terms with a single character or faction, but no-one else will really care.
• Villainous acts cause everybody to hate you. See "Stupid Evil" at tvtropes. Unlike the previous two, I don't intend to support Stupid Evil as a valid character type because I don't work for Bioware. Not many things give villainous rep: attacking nonhostiles is about it. So, for the rest of this discussion, I'll just be talking about criminal and bastard acts.

Stepping outside of the social contract should be risky. You get extra benefits not available to PCs who play by the rules (filthy lucre), but at the same time earn the ire of the establishment (whoever they may be). This ire should not be enough to render the game unplayable, and may even provide some side benefits (your enemy sent a duelist to fight you? Defeat him and collect his custom weapons), but it does mean that playing an antisocial character is more challenging.

The Rewards of Criminality
Convoy Encounters: Trucker NPCs should occasionally be given convoy missions. These encounters are normally invisible, meaning that you need Awareness or some other means of spotting hidden encounters to benefit. Entering the encounter allows you to fight the guards to steal lots of money + a random chance of special loot. The leader of the convoy will become an enemy, of course.

Robbery Missions: THIEF-type NPCs might offer to sell the PC a lead on a heist. This could be a raid against a convoy, or a building, or something else. It may be a mecha mission or a personal scale mission. The result will be lots of money + a high chance of special loot.

Robbery Quests: Certain locations should have robbable places, such as the Comet Basement. These places should be very difficult but have loot which can't be obtained elsewhere.

The Risks
Enemies: NPC Enemies should show up on times to fight the PC. If they're in a town without the SAFE tag, they might get a patrol plot which will attack the PC. Rich or well-connected enemies may hire duelists to ambush the PC.

The Law: Police NPCs do patrols of the city. If they encounter a criminal PC they'll attack. Police patrols are not generated in lawless cities, making these good places to lay low. I just checked and these patrols are not yet activated... oops.

Heat: This isn't implemented yet, either, but I think it's a good idea. Doing criminal things in town will raise a "heat" counter. Fighting with the city defense patrols will also increase heat. If the counter rises high enough, mecha patrols on the outside maps will activate and seek the PC. At a higher level the guards in buildings turn hostile and resuscitation is suspended. Heat goes down over time.

With these systems in place, Stealth becomes a natural skill for a thief to take.

What do you think?

[Onisuzume]

Unlike the previous two, I don't intend to support Stupid Evil as a valid character type because I don't work for Bioware.

xD Awesome reason. But is bioware really that bad?

What do you think?

Sounds good.

[Joseph Hewitt]

No, probably not. They did get a lot of blame for Neverwinter Nights, and I recall hearing someone describe the generic Bioware ending as being "in the last 5 minutes of the game, choose option A to save the world because you're good, or option B to save the world because you're evil". On the other hand they're the studio who produced Planescape: Torment.

On a related subject, I should jot down some notes about heroism and lawfulness. Unlike many RPGs having a heroic reputation in GH isn't meant to be the default state. Heroism points are something you need to work at and sacrifice for if you want; for most characters, they aren't even all that important. Being heroic gets you a few extra resurrections without permanent injury, makes most NPCs like you more, and opens up some quest/story options. Lawfulness is easier to obtain than heroism, but still requires a bit of effort and sacrifice. It's needed if you want to get the good promotion awards for a police faction. It opens up some quest/story options. In general, though, having a strong lawful reputation isn't as important as simply not having a criminal reputation.

[Burzmali]

On a related subject, I should jot down some notes about heroism and lawfulness. Unlike many RPGs having a heroic reputation in GH isn't meant to be the default state. Heroism points are something you need to work at and sacrifice for if you want; for most characters, they aren't even all that important. Being heroic gets you a few extra resurrections without permanent injury, makes most NPCs like you more, and opens up some quest/story options. Lawfulness is easier to obtain than heroism, but still requires a bit of effort and sacrifice. It's needed if you want to get the good promotion awards for a police faction. It opens up some quest/story options. In general, though, having a strong lawful reputation isn't as important as simply not having a criminal reputation.

In GH2 you can work at improving your Lawfulness, but, unless you metagame, you only gain Heroism under unique circumstances.

[Forethought]

Will a criminal PC be able to avoid getting criminal reputation if they're careful? How would Stealth be useful in this endeavor?

Would Heat be strictly attached to the PC, or would the PC be able to perform certain actions (like getting a new paint job for their mecha) to deflect attention away from themselves? Could a player potentially direct heat meant for them toward someone else (such as the story arc's big enemy)? How about the reverse, where the PC gets heat for an action they didn't commit?

Will criminal actions and/or reputation be uniform throughout the entire game? Or could what is illegal in one place be potentially legal elsewhere? Could a notorious pirate in Maquise Spinner be welcomed as a hero in Rishiri Spinner?

Will criminal reputation be strictly limited to actions performed, or could, for example, the PC be busted for possession of restricted goods?

What happens if the PC fights off some patrols and ends up killing a few hostile but otherwise good characters, like police or characters with high Heroic reputation? Do they get Villainous reputation then? Should Villainous reputation be considered one of the risks of criminality if crimes are done poorly?

Should there be consequences outside of criminal reputation for criminal acts (such as lowering shop quality/possibly drive the shop out of business if the PC steals from a shop)?

[Daemonward]

No, probably not. They did get a lot of blame for Neverwinter Nights, and I recall hearing someone describe the generic Bioware ending as being "in the last 5 minutes of the game, choose option A to save the world because you're good, or option B to save the world because you're evil". On the other hand they're the studio who produced Planescape: Torment.

Actually, Planescape: Torment was developed by Black Isle Studios, who made the first two Fallout games and the Icewind Dale series.

[Joseph Hewitt]

Will a criminal PC be able to avoid getting criminal reputation if they're careful? How would Stealth be useful in this endeavor?

No. Genre convention- space pirates and master thieves tend to be pretty out-in-the-open about what they are.

Where stealth comes in handy is having specific crimes go unnoticed (i.e., steal something without raising an alarm) and avoiding police patrols.

Would Heat be strictly attached to the PC, or would the PC be able to perform certain actions (like getting a new paint job for their mecha) to deflect attention away from themselves?

Maybe.

Could a player potentially direct heat meant for them toward someone else (such as the story arc's big enemy)? How about the reverse, where the PC gets heat for an action they didn't commit?

I didn't really think about that... for now probably not, but we'll see.

Will criminal actions and/or reputation be uniform throughout the entire game?

Yes for criminal actions, but faction-based reputations will be separate for each faction.

Will criminal reputation be strictly limited to actions performed, or could, for example, the PC be busted for possession of restricted goods?

Strictly to actions performed.

What happens if the PC fights off some patrols and ends up killing a few hostile but otherwise good characters, like police or characters with high Heroic reputation? Do they get Villainous reputation then? Should Villainous reputation be considered one of the risks of criminality if crimes are done poorly?

You only get villainous points for attacking characters while they're nonhostile. Once combat begins, it doesn't matter how heroic they are.

Should there be consequences outside of criminal reputation for criminal acts (such as lowering shop quality/possibly drive the shop out of business if the PC steals from a shop)?

Maybe.

[Joseph Hewitt]

In GH2 you can work at improving your Lawfulness, but, unless you metagame, you only gain Heroism under unique circumstances.

Actually, under the current development version, there is a recurring way to improve Heroism. I think there still need to be more ways, though.

Actually, Planescape: Torment was developed by Black Isle Studios, who made the first two Fallout games and the Icewind Dale series.

Oops, you're right... in my defense, the game did use the Bioware-developed Infinity Engine.

[Burzmali]

Actually, under the current development version, there is a recurring way to improve Heroism. I think there still need to be more ways, though.

You probably don't want to allow farming heroism.  It is the only trait that can't be trivially farmed at the moment.

[Joseph Hewitt]

I was thinking about that. All characters should be able to achieve 100 Heroism with enough effort. To avoid farming, I could limit heroism to quests + core story and make sure that there are at least 100 points available. This sounds tedious (for me, the developer, not necessarily you, the player).

A reminder about how heroism works: Positive points are accumulated normally, up to a maximum score of 100. Negative points are a bit different: if it's just 1 negative point or if you are already villainous, the change is simply added to your score as normal. If it's 2 or more negative points and you are currently heroic, you lose all heroism points you have accumulated so far and the negative points are added to zero.

One idea to discourage farming: diminishing returns. The first 100 points of heroism come at 1 point each. After that, gaining an additional point costs 2 "AddHeroic" commands.

Alternate idea: maximum positive change. You can accumulate as many negative points of heroism as you want, but your positive points are limited to 120.

Yet a third: the ceiling of heinous acts. Losing a lot of heroism points in one go will apply a cap to your maximum heroism score. Killing civilians or doing any of the other really bad stuff will cap your score to 0 for  a first offense, with further decreases thereafter. So, you can't count on farming to bring your heroism back up to max after doing something bad.

A fourth, just to round things out: unforgivable sin. Once your heroism drops beneath a certain threshold, it cannot be increased ever again by any method.

Thoughts?