Author Topic: AEGIS forces need equipment.  (Read 1802 times)

Offline Francisco Munoz

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AEGIS forces need equipment.
« on: August 31, 2009, 03:53:38 PM »
After kicking them (AEGIS goons) a bit with my privateer, I found that they lacked any nice faction equipment so after 10 minutes in the text editor and 1 hour in the Gimp...

(You can put them in design\PC_Luna.txt file, just create it and paste the code)
Quote
Melee 5
Name <Ceramic Shortsword>
Type <ARMORPIERCING>
desc <A short-bladed sword created using lunar ceramic materials.>
sdl_portrait <item_ceramshortsword.png>
category <WEAPON MELEE>
factions <AEGIS AEGSF>
legality -10
Acc 1
Speed 5
Mass -3



Gun 5
name <Ceramic Dart Ligth Pistol>
desig <AEG SA-4a>
%Aegis sidearm mark 4, version a
category <WEAPON MISSILE>
factions <AEGIS AEGSF>
desc <This pistol fires small V shaped ceramic darts. Usual Aegis forces ligth sidearm.>
caliber <11mm Ceramic Dart>
SDL_PORTRAIT <item_dartlightpistol.png>
Acc 1
Range 4
Speed 4
Legality 0
Mass -4
magazine 20
sub
   Ammo 5
   name <Ceramic Darts>
   caliber <11mm Ceramic Dart>
   type <ARMORPIERCING>
   SDL_PORTRAIT <item_ammoclip.png>
end



Gun 7
name <Ceramic Dart Pistol>
desig <AEG SA-4b>
%Aegis sidearm mark 4, version b
category <WEAPON MISSILE>
factions <AEGIS AEGSF>
desc <This pistol fires small V shaped ceramic darts. Usual Aegis forces heavy sidearm.>
caliber <14mm Ceramic Dart>
SDL_PORTRAIT <item_dartpistol.png>
Acc 1
Range 4
Speed 4
Legality 0
Mass -4
magazine 30
sub
   Ammo 7
   name <Ceramic Darts>
   caliber <14mm Ceramic Dart>
   type <ARMORPIERCING>
   mass -1
   SDL_PORTRAIT <item_ammoclip.png>
end



Gun 7
name <Ceramic Dart Rifle>
desig <AEG MA-4>
%Aegis mainarm mark 4
category <WEAPON MISSILE>
factions <AEGIS AEGSF>
desc <This rifle fires small V shaped ceramic darts. Used by Aegis forces.>
caliber <14mm Ceramic Dart>
SDL_PORTRAIT <item_dartgun.png>
Acc 1
Range 7
Speed 3
Legality 0
Mass -4
BV 2
magazine 90
sub
   Ammo 7
   name <Ceramic Darts>
   caliber <14mm Ceramic Dart>
   type <ARMORPIERCING>
   mass -3
   SDL_PORTRAIT <item_ammoclip.png>
end



Set
name <AEGIS Pilot Suit[set]>
desc <AEGIS Space Force Pilot spacesuit.>
Category <ARMOR SPACE>
Factions <AEGSF>
Legality -15
inv
   HeadArmor 3
   name <AEGIS Space Force Pilot Helm>
   desc <A ceramic spacesuit helm with integrated rebreather. Used by the AEGIS force in the space.>
   Category <ARMOR SPACE>
   Factions <AEGSF>
   SDL_PORTRAIT <item_lightspacehelm.png>
   Mass -4
   Legality -15
   Sealed
   Hardened

   BodyArmor 3
   name <AEGIS Space Force Suit>
   desc <A skintight spacesuit with ceramic reinforcements. Used by the AEGIS force in the space.>
   Category <ARMOR SPACE>
   Factions <AEGSF>
   Mass -4
   Legality -15
   Sealed
   Hardened
   sub
      SpaceFlight 3
   end

   ArmArmor 3
   name <AEGIS Space Force Sleeve>
   desc <A skintight spacesuit with ceramic reinforcements. Used by the AEGIS force in the space.>
   Category <ARMOR SPACE>
   Factions <AEGSF>
   Mass -4
   Legality -15
   Sealed
   Hardened

   LegArmor 3
   name <SAEGIS Space Force Legging>
   desc <A skintight spacesuit with ceramic reinforcements. Used by the AEGIS force in the space.>
   Category <ARMOR SPACE>
   Factions <AEGSF>
   Mass -4
   Legality -15
   Sealed
   Hardened

   ArmArmor 3
   name <AEGIS Space Force Sleeve>
   desc <A skintight spacesuit with ceramic reinforcements. Used by the AEGIS force in the space.>
   Category <ARMOR SPACE>
   Factions <AEGSF>
   Mass -4
   Legality -15
   Sealed
   Hardened

   LegArmor 3
   name <AEGIS Space Force Legging>
   desc <A skintight spacesuit with ceramic reinforcements. Used by the AEGIS force in the space.>
   Category <ARMOR SPACE>
   Factions <AEGSF>
   Mass -4
   Legality -15
   Sealed
   Hardened
end

« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 12:08:18 PM by Francisco Munoz »

Offline Vair

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AEGIS forces need equipment.
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2009, 11:19:46 PM »
I wrote some big and boring post but after some consideration, I just wanted to say:

 Good idea, all factions should probably get specialized attire (uniforms/armors, just please not so many skintight ones. Maybe I'll make some myself) and that I was afraid that there will be new mechas here (by my humble opinions we have almost too many of them already, especially when we think that SF:1 one day may get it's own set of machines).

Offline Ivan

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AEGIS forces need equipment.
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2009, 09:06:07 AM »
Yeah, and the concept behind can be quite simple - each faction could have their "trait" going though their gear. Aegis gear could be lighter with emphasis on a bit of finesse for commando forces using it. For small arms - lesser dc, higher bv - i.e. a bit better and lighter pin rifle. For big guns - lighter sniper rifle with DC 12 spd 2 acc 3, ammo 15.

Idea for other factions - let the have actually good hand grenades, agl and assault pack clips. Maybe grenades with charges, so that they could be competitive to thumper or QRL in crowd control.

Thing is to keep faction items that can be recharged once obtained within "high quality" range, i.e. among good but not best generally available items, while adding items that can only be used and thrown away with no chance to recharge - which could actually be quite powerful. Like a chance to temporarily use one of the best guns ever without yet buying it.

Lastly, Francisco, your designs are very good. Only one single thing beats the eye - shortsword design. The shape you gave it is classic. It comes from old metals needing that thickness to retain durability under their own weight. Speaking of much lighter and sharper ceramics we would likely end up with a blade that looks like a very long and sharp cone - like ">" this but much thinner and longer. Because the only purpose of the lunar blade is to be able to pierce the armor and let the air out. All the rest of stuff is great, though "mass" could be considered and varied.

Offline xpace

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AEGIS forces need equipment.
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2009, 09:34:45 AM »
Quoting: Vair
[snip...] and that I was afraid that there will be new mechas here (by my humble opinions we have almost too many of them already, especially when we think that SF:1 one day may get it's own set of machines).

Nonsense.
There's no such thing as too many mecha! :D
I, for one, hope to see at least two new mecha unique to AEGIS!
In fact, I'll be disappointed if I don't see them by GH2 release 1.0... :(

Oh, and I look forward to the day when we see more SF:1 power-armor and vehicles.

Offline Francisco Munoz

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« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2009, 10:26:16 AM »
Quoting: Ivan

Lastly, Francisco, your designs are very good. Only one single thing beats the eye - shortsword design. The shape you gave it is classic. It comes from old metals needing that thickness to retain durability under their own weight. Speaking of much lighter and sharper ceramics we would likely end up with a blade that looks like a very long and sharp cone - like ">" this but much thinner and longer. Because the only purpose of the lunar blade is to be able to pierce the armor and let the air out. All the rest of stuff is great, though "mass" could be considered and varied.


 Yeah I know, even this design was not used much in 1700+ years for short swords after steel was got in vogue... but this is for AEGIS.
 A mostly martial decorative weapon following the those Pax Europa traditions. Luna is a peaceful place (outside the conquering battles and maybe some sad isolated incidents) and having a nice military dress uniform with a sword to match really counts.
 Nevertheless, a ceramic blade will need some core material in the fuller to beat its brittleness (at lest if they are some upgraded derivative of modern day ceramic blades).

 Disclaimer: this is just my point of view of the things. But your idea of a atmosphere piercing weapon sounds really nice.

Offline Vair

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« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2009, 03:23:40 PM »
Quoting: xpace
Nonsense.
There's no such thing as too many mecha! :D


Well, then I just strongly disagree - that's a matter of taste after all. I just don't like the world when there are 6 types of mecha for average cavalier that do the exactly same thing in the exact same way. No standard-issued equipment (how many mechas use same type of rifle or whatever, eh? Maybe two, three. Not overly much as it seems that every model of mecha had several guns invented just for that model - no matter that in effectiveness they achieve nothing more than previous inventions). It's kinda silly. Even IRL, as far as cars go (and they're far more common and widespread among population than mechas in GH) there is just dozen or so of the really famous lines, just of helluva variations.

And I would rather see new variation or subtype of existing mecha model than another whole new one mecha which existence has little of any realistic point as it's just same old machine with new name, sprite and slight module change. I'd rather see something honestly improved and here I would like to thank for Buru Buru - typical mecha but of several variations which make one feel that it's good machine which can be adapted to new functions. Not some 'whoa, looks nice' which has nothing really interesting, just fireworks which mess up impression for me instead of making me interested. More toys than any cavalier may need.

Kinda makes me recall somewhat now-famous anime, Code Geass. I've watched eagerly first half of whole series where there were several kinds of generic mechas which were normal mass-produced, efficent machines. Then producers added a couple cliche uber-mechas for main cast. Could live through that. But more and more and as far as just giant robots are concerned it was slowly going downhill to 'My mecha is shinier and more cool than yours'. Kinda like penis-length contest.

Explained my opinion.
/rant

Edit: there may be typos or whatever, some I've corrected, some probably weren't noticed. Don't see this as disrespect, dear reader, it's the late hour and unpleasant private stuff in live that leaves me slightly not-so-fresh.

Offline Joseph Hewitt

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« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2009, 05:51:54 PM »
Just out of curiosity, what identical mecha do you think exist now?

Offline Snakebit STI

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« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2009, 07:14:11 PM »
I agree with Vair. I'd like to see more variations on existing mecha. However they don't all have to be like the ___ Buru Buru IMO. I think the manufacturers need more models. [editedit] okay so that's basically new mecha. So yeah.
Quoting: Vair
Kinda makes me recall somewhat now-famous anime, Code Geass. I've watched eagerly first half of whole series where there were several kinds of generic mechas which were normal mass-produced, efficent machines. Then producers added a couple cliche uber-mechas for main cast. Could live through that. But more and more and as far as just giant robots are concerned it was slowly going downhill to 'My mecha is shinier and more cool than yours'. Kinda like penis-length contest.

My thoughts exactly.
Oh, and I assume you meant realistic mecha, not giant robots. Very different.

[edit] Several of the starting mecha are identically useless ^^;; Not as cannon fodder, though.

Offline Ivan

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« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2009, 01:36:48 AM »
Quoting: Francisco Munoz
Disclaimer: this is just my point of view of the things.


Actually same here. I know I'm too ill with my own insight into how it all should work, so that by no means would push anyone anyhow. Honestly - I don't get this anime themed world. I love it, I enjoy it, but I don't get it myself - if any of ma ideas fit here - GOOD, if not - good too, 'cuz they are cooking in the head and maybe will give me second line of insight, so feel free to ignore and correct.

Speaking of which, how about some factions carrying pre-assembled non-sentient robotic kits? You just push the button and a not-the-best robot jumps to follow you. (or just sell the bugger) - a nice flavored change too, ja?

Offline Skulkraken

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AEGIS forces need equipment.
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2009, 05:02:56 AM »
Quoting: Ivan
Speaking of which, how about some factions carrying pre-assembled non-sentient robotic kits? You just push the button and a not-the-best robot jumps to follow you. (or just sell the bugger) - a nice flavored change too, ja?


That would be great.  Either that, or something like the Laptop Gun from Perfect Dark, where you can use it as a standard gun or deploy it as a sentry turret.

More mecha are always welcome.  I'd actually been trying to design a hoverfighter/aerofighter hybrid to act as a trainer-class variant of the Wraith (since the standard version tends to be difficult to handle at times)...but I kept running into trouble with the mecha's hoverjets adding an extremely short (and crash-prone) jump option to its movement modes, so I eventually scrapped it.

Offline Phil Munoz

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« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2009, 05:43:06 AM »
Quoting: Skulkraken
More mecha are always welcome. I'd actually been trying to design a hoverfighter/aerofighter hybrid to act as a trainer-class variant of the Wraith (since the standard version tends to be difficult to handle at times)...but I kept running into trouble with the mecha's hoverjets adding an extremely short (and crash-prone) jump option to its movement modes, so I eventually scrapped it.


Why not just make an aerofighter with large arcjets?

Anyway, rather than variations of mecha, I'd like to see them carrying different sets of weaponry.

For example, the buruburu has a lot of variants having almost the same internal parts (installed weapons/systems), but with different equipped weapons (the ones on hand and mounts).

Rather than having to have a different design file for each variation, is it possible to have a script that gives a spawned mecha a random load out of equipment?

For example, the buruburu can be equipped with three weapons from a set of weapons.  For the primary weapon, one from a set (Shaka Cannon, Repeater Cannon, Heavy Gauss Rifle, etc), one secondary weapon, (Mecha Axe), tertiary weapon (a selection of missiles).

This way, factions may also use a different set of weapons even though they use the same general mecha.  So a faction with preference for laser weapons will use a Buruburu with laser weapons, and the Aegis forces may use a Buruburu with Aegis weapons.

Offline Vair

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« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2009, 01:59:03 PM »
Quoting: Joseph Hewitt
Just out of curiosity, what identical mecha do you think exist now?


For example, almost every low-end battroid is like every other low-end battroid sooner ot later. Every hi-end is like any other hi-end one. They may have somewhat different armaments but in the end it's all the same - a couple of weapons for medium or long range and something to smash things up close. Sure, there are differences but they don't lie in mechas, just their rifles. And as the player changes often equipment of his mecha, those differences start to fade with time.

I would like mechas to differ a bit more but I am not fond of idea of creating completely new model for every slight difference that can be introduced. Rather, I would like base general purpose units with model variations made for specific tasks. Also, in my humble opinion as in those mechas would lie the difference, equipment should be standarized (if faction agrees that this or that cannon is relatively common, cheap and great for assault units, all of their assault units should have it as base weapon). Currently, it's like some rag-tag guerilla army - everyone grabs whatever shooty and stabby thing they've got and go fight, no matter than some of those weapons are junk compared to others.

I would like one day, after joining some military faction get something like 'Here, private, is your battroid. It's equipped with standard issue rifle of this and that type and military-grade mecha beam shield. Good as a long-range support unit because of it's high-resolution sensors but don't charge at the enemy in it. It's lightly armored and not made for fast movement. It bears colors of our faction, but you're free to repaint it, it's only your Identification Signature that matters anyway. Just not ask for paint from quartermaster or he'll break your arms. He's very fond of our color scheme'.

Yeah, it was going to be just some short answer and it turned into bigger pondering about mechas and their equipment. Pardon me :P

And of course, I can understand if someone will not like my opinion on those things. Some people are great supporters of 'every mecha in the space - different than the rest' idea, I presume - and I guess it's okay as well.

Offline Snakebit STI

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« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2009, 06:17:11 PM »
Perhaps we need lists of equipment that every faction of type x should have their own version of. I.e. all military factions have at minimum their own assault rifle, submachine gun, pistol, sword, et cetera.
[edit] not necessarily unique weapons for each faction. There are cases where it would make sense that two factions use similar weapons (especially if they are different types of faction)

Offline Joseph Hewitt

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« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2009, 06:59:19 PM »
Quoting: Vair
For example, almost every low-end battroid is like every other low-end battroid sooner ot later. Every hi-end is like any other hi-end one.

I can see the low-ends having similar bodies (the Galah and War Cry are nearly identical, on purpose), but the high-ends? I ask again, can you give some specific examples? How different do you  think the different frames should be?

I think I agree with your general point though- for the military factions at least, it would be good to have a greater uniformity in deployment. Several "trooper" mecha of the same type, a support mecha or two (possibly of the same type as the trooper, with upgraded weapons), a scout and a command mecha would make a nice unit. Irregulars such as the Privateers and the pirate fleets could continue to use the old mecha selection routine.

Offline Vair

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« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2009, 01:06:06 AM »
Quoting: Joseph Hewitt
I ask again, can you give some specific examples?


For example, Luna II and Vadel are quite alike in game for me. Both are just good multi-purpose mechas with in-built software that provides boost to MV and TR. Their base armaments are different but they're about kicking ass at mid-to-long range and finishing things with melee weapon.

 Differences more noticeable in the beginning as Luna is a lil bit more about melee than Vadel, yet after some playing, player changes armaments, maybe 'engineer' in and out a part or two and we have basically the same thing. Well, then probably it's alright, after all - we shouldn't restrict players overly just because we want this or that mecha to work this and that way, yet it's still too easy to change things. It's good that in case of hi-tech mechas, they're rare enough that player doesn't see how alike they are that easily. Also, I guess I must take into consideration that if they are to be top machines, they should be decent at everything at the very least. Still, for example let's give Vadel slightly worse melee weapon and Luna some short-to-mid range assault machinegun while putting some more armor on it and we have mechas of two different styles - great gunner in case of Vadel and Luna - short-range assault menace.

Quoting: Joseph Hewitt
How different do you think the different frames should be?


Maybe by making mecha parts have greater impact on mecha's functionality. Average sensors working just averagely, without any bonus or much of any penalty and being basic element of all standard military mechas. Good mechas getting slightly better sensors, yet only those used as long-range support like artillery or snipers should get really great ones. Armors (equipment) should offer greater protection but also slow down mecha considerably. In-built plating as well should be more noticeable.

Maybe specialized robots should also have some integral weapon more often and less mounting points. And I am quite sure that every mecha which isn't of very old class or civilian type and is not made to be expendable grunt should have at least crappy computer even if it wouldn't allow other software than one providing a bonus of symbolic value at best. It may not be much but surely would help me get rid of impression like 'Hey! It's Haiho but with more and bigger guns!'

Mechas which were made for particular task should excel at this task, but be unfitting for another. Artillery being averagely armored, very slow, pucking quite a punch with decent accuracy and powerful are-effect weapons like rockets, snipers would be more concentrated on single targets and probably would put slightly more in MV as they cannot just bomb the map and must seek targets. Both powerful but if something melee-oritented takes them up close - they either will have to get a luck point-blank shot or they will turn into scrap after a couple of hits.

And so on, and so on.

Sure, there should still be general purpose mechas which function depends entirely on their weapon so they will be decent well-rounded machines.. just not let every mecha turn into such. It's a thing for engineers to tinker with Pixie (one of those few mechas that aren't fit for every style of fighting) if they plan to turn it into heavily armored melee fighter (which probably would mean that they will have to rebuild it more than modify).

Quoting: Joseph Hewitt
Several "trooper" mecha of the same type, a support mecha or two (possibly of the same type as the trooper, with upgraded weapons), a scout and a command mecha would make a nice unit. Irregulars such as the Privateers and the pirate fleets could continue to use the old mecha selection routine.


Would be just great. I forgot that there are rag-tag organizations after all and surely those should just show up in rather random and mixed groups.