Author Topic: Brainstorming: What to do in town?  (Read 3913 times)

Offline Joseph Hewitt

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Brainstorming: What to do in town?
« on: July 19, 2009, 06:40:34 PM »
This thread is inspired by Vair's comment in the Graphics Content thread. To wit:

Quoting: Vair
I'd rather see improvement of the game world, new possibilities for players and greater complexity of NPCs.


At the moment GH2 is kind of empty. Aside from quests there aren't a lot of goals to set, and aside from missions there's not a lot to do. So, what would you like to do? What things would make the world seem more alive? I'm opening this thread for brainstorming. Feel free to list anything that comes to mind. Don't worry about feasibility/implementation/details just yet- for now, let's just create a list of cool possibilities.

Here's some from me:

- Making friends/contacts/lovers/enemies. When entering a new town, maybe you should have to make some contacts. Maybe friends/contacts could do certain things for you- an explorer/recon pilot could be asked to scout an area, revealing all encounters for a set time, or something else. Maybe making friends could be more involved- giving gifts, helping them with things. Going to a "meeting" scene and doing things with NPCs there- dancing at a night club, playing frisbee at a park, etc. Certain contact-making activities should involve making an enemy: help A vs B, gain A's friendship but B's hatred. Friends and enemies should play a bigger role in the game.

- Challenging people to duels, being challenged by people.

- Stealing things, and sometimes having the things stolen matter. There need to be more consequences in the game. Maybe you can steal plans from one corporation and sell it to a rival? Also, the convoy-robbing encounter needs to be added so pirates have a worthwhile reason to get a criminal reputation.

- Factions as gods: some ideas from Crawl. Right now, factions give XP for completing missions, but I think they should give XP for certain acts related to the faction which aren't necessarily missions. Fighting an enemy of your faction should give XP, even if the mission-giver is of a different faction. Capturing criminals in bounty hunting missions should give XP for all police factions. Defeating major NPCs in combat should give XP for the pro duelist association. Stealing things should give XP for the criminal factions. Also, it should be possible to call upon your faction for help- this could only be done a few times throughout the game, and would result in reinforcements arriving to aid you in battle, or maybe other effects as well.

- Using Science to design new, experimental items in both personal and mecha scale.

- Recruiting other NPCs for your faction.

- Become the head of the local truckers union, hunter's guild, or organized crime family. Send your minions out to do things for you. Maybe a local social network which you can establish a place in?

- NPCs with goals. The PC can aid or oppose them, possibly leading to friends/enemies. Ideally the PC should be able to accomplish the same sort of goals.

Offline Snakebit STI

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Brainstorming: What to do in town?
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2009, 07:45:29 PM »
Edited for brevity (It's much shorter now!) and to refine ideas. Reread please.
    An easy, if somewhat cheap, way of making spinners more 'full' is separating shops and the like a bit more and adding more faction locations. Example mid size spinner: space port, mecha repair center, 2/3 company stores/offices (mecha dealerships), bar, restaurant, plaza, administration building, bounty hunters' guild, L5Law office, mall, gun store, armor store, adventurer store, hospital, university. With more buildings based on the spinner (i.e. tech stores in Galconde). Yes, this means more driving around to buy the stuff you want, but I think it's actually preferable.
    As for more things to do: add ways to have fun. Examples: arcades, pool halls (bars), parks, theaters. Separate performance back into dancing, singing, and performance(? instrument playing), and you can be more specific: sing in a karaoke bar or open mic night (new rumor), dances ranging from raves to balls (based on spinner), play a gig in a bar, etc. My thought for player interaction is simply talking to the right person in the right building and performing a skill roll, which determines how much fun the PC has. Time passes, and you get a message telling you how it went, possibly gaining money, xp/skill xp, a friend, a love  interest, or a rival (how can a mecha anime based game not have rivals?). Hidden stats such as sociability/shyness should be taken into account for the roll: a very shy person would loath going to a club, but a sociable character would love it. A melancholic character might enjoy a lecture on theoretical physics (science), but  a pasionate character would be bored out of their mind.
Quoting: Joseph Hewitt
- Making friends/contacts/lovers/enemies.

And rivals? Characters who regularly challenge you to no-killing duels. Maybe even nonviolent duels (performance skill).
Perhaps the cyber punk equivalent to ye olde tavern should be added. Have the NPCs say things like "3000XP Arena Pilot, LFG". Okay, that example would be a very rare occurrence (easter egg), but the idea is you could pick up an NPC ally to follow you for x hours or for one battle.

Offline xpace

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Brainstorming: What to do in town?
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2009, 09:14:59 PM »
Those all sound like good ideas to me.

Here's another one: How about different ways for the player to invest their character's money? Perhaps a Stock Market mini-game? (This was done fairly well in the 'Well of Souls' game.) Or how about buying into a partnership into an existing (but financially strapped) business/chain, or perhaps helping an NPC realize their dream of running their own business?

Offline Snakebit STI

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Brainstorming: What to do in town?
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2009, 06:20:06 AM »
Quoting: xpace
Perhaps a Stock Market mini-game?

There is in the banks on Emerald Spinner. Although, maybe it could be improved, since as far as I know there's no stock market involved, just a PRNG.
There is already a mission I stumbled across that has you searching for a benefactor to pay off 2mil in student loans. I'm not sure if the game gives you the option to pay it yourself, but that could be applied to stores. Maybe the shopkeeper gives you hefty discounts? Adding ways to make money a la GTA (own a store, visit it ever 24 hours to collect money) seems like going to far to me. It would get tedious.
(edited: typo)

Offline SharkD

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Brainstorming: What to do in town?
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2009, 03:16:54 PM »
All your ideas sound good, especially this:

Quoting: Joseph Hewitt
There need to be more consequences in the game


The choices you make should have noticeable repercussions.

You might also add a buy/sell low/high trading dynamic, along with the complementary skills sets and vehicles to go with it.

Also, you should be able to track NPCs as they travel around the system between spinners.

In general, if you want to make the game feel more fleshed-out or alive then you need make the narration more cohesive, IMO. The dynamic stuff is good, but if it's too random then it feels chaotic and less believable.

Offline xpace

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Brainstorming: What to do in town?
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2009, 09:36:47 PM »
Quoting: Snakebit STI
Adding ways to make money a la GTA (own a store, visit it ever 24 hours to collect money) seems like going to far to me. It would get tedious.

Who says that you have to visit a store you own every 24 hours to collect the money? I could see a game where you could leave for days or weeks and when you finally come chat with the manager you get paid what's owed. Alternatively, the income might get automatically deposited in the local bank.

Also, even if you think it would get too tedious, some of us may feel differently. Gamers have different playing styles and interests, after all. That's one nice thing about vast games like GearHead: With so many optional quests and ways to earn money, we can pick and choose which ones we like.

Even if the reward is only a discount at the business, it could eventually add up to useful savings. I wouldn't mind getting a nice discount at a mecha garage, particularly at a location I tend to frequent.

Quoting: SharkD
You might also add a buy/sell low/high trading dynamic, along with the complementary skills sets and vehicles to go with it.

I second this suggestion. IMO, the Buy/Sell trade dynamic is one feature (of several) that helped endear games such as Frontier: Elite II, X2, X3, Freelancer, Eve Online, and WC: Privateer to fans. Granted, the games I mentioned are space simulators. But this feature has been used in RPGs and other genres before. As long as there is a potential for profit and a reasonably user friendly way to travel between trading posts, it should be viable.

How about a new class of vehicle?: Spaceship

Personally, I really like the idea of owning a spaceship, much like Mischa Admoni in the comics. But in addition to using it to hunt down bounties, any excess space could also be used for transporting goods to sell at another Spinner or outpost.

Some might fear the profit potential could get out of hand. But a spaceship would be terribly expensive and players would be tempted to spend their profits on upgrading to a bigger ship with better shields/weapons and a larger cargo hold.

And I could also imagine random encounters, such as solar storms, meteor showers, and Space Pirates intercepting your ship - trying to take your cargo by force and turn your vehicles into scrap and spare parts. You could have an NPC ally control the ship weapons while you intercept the enemy mecha with your own. Or something.

Also, how about quests where you have to investigate a derelict spaceship or infiltrate a faction spaceship to retrieve something? Lots of personal-scale combat potential there, opportunity for puzzles to solve (such as starting a fire on board to activate emergency depressurization), and rare and/or valuable loot. Or, perhaps you have to destroy a faction ship to prevent critical info or materials from falling into the wrong hands? Perhaps even a chance to nab a prototype mecha being transported someplace for reverse-engineering or mass production?

Ah, the possibilities...!

Offline Snakebit STI

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« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2009, 09:41:49 PM »
I dunno. I like the idea of consequences, but I can't recall ever seeing it pulled off well. I do think we should at least try.

The choices you make shouldn't build up to substantial consequences right from the start. That's hubris, because you're a nobody cavalier in the beginning. In the end game, you should theoretically be a nigh-unstoppable agent of death. Or a really good singer. With a sizable lance (horde!) of fanboys/girls willing to lay down their lives for you. Consequences should scale to match. Maybe factions/spinners could even become reliant on you if you help them too much. Take a vacation for a couple (in game) days, and come home to find an Aegis Overlord flag waving in artificial wind on the top of the spinner. And MANY frantic emails.

Damn, I just stumbled into "with great power comes great responsibility."

[edit:ninja'd!]
Quoting: xpace
Gamers have different playing styles and interests, after all.

... Oh, right. That. Oops.
Quoting: xpace
How about a new class of vehicle?: Spaceship

Methinks this is neat, but way too headache inducing for one Joeseph Hewitt. It would require a new scale of combat, and new rules to go with that, and new weapons, and new... yeah. Maybe instead of the player owning and flying the ship, the player's faction does? There could still be the special events you mentioned, either as random encounters or missions. Being allowed to commandeer a ship should require relatively high standing in your faction, otherwise you're just along for the ride.

Spaceships could also make for a nice alternative to the current salvage system: your faction snags all of the swag. What you get out of it depends your faction/renown. Some factions pay much more per mission, but keep all the salvage; some factions pay much less, but all the goods are yours to keep as part of your payment.

Offline Vair

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Brainstorming: What to do in town?
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2009, 12:13:20 AM »
Quoting: Snakebit STI
Take a vacation for a couple (in game) days, and come home to find an Aegis Overlord flag waving in artificial wind on the top of the spinner. And MANY frantic emails.


Well, it would be nice if player's action would attract degree of interest and make character matter in the world more, but I wouldn't like to go as far as attaining title of Galactic Hero or Evil Overlord and idea of hordes of fanboys or fangirls dying for me seems as funny as wrong but slightly too silly (although event when die-hard fan contacts you saying that s/he learned how to drive a mecha and use a gun always dreaming to be part of your lance could be nice [especially with additional traits like - character easily takes PC to liking, even if charisma stat is quite low and no special skills are present. Such fan also is never fazed by his own failings but tremendously dependent upon morale of PC]).

 Script that would make random people go 'Hey, it's you, the one who did this and that', friendly organization's representative greeting you when you come to spinner and issuing you a temporary bodyguard because 'we know you can handle yourself but we couldn't bear if you would get hurt when we were able to prevent that' or just 'so it'll keep all those pesky adorers away'.

Spaceships:

Quoting: Snakebit STI
Methinks this is neat, but way too headache inducing for one Joeseph Hewitt. It would require a new scale of combat, and new rules to go with that, and new weapons, and new... yeah.


 Only if we'll take some battleships and cruisers as such. For me, fighters like Wraith fits the idea of spaceship as well, just add Faster-Than-Light drive to it.

 I would like more vehicles like that. Especially if it wouldn't be that easy for a mecha to travel through space for longer distances (regular space mechas shouldn't rather have FTL drives to travel between spinners easily on their own).

 In long, long future, what I would like to see would be continuous play mode. No real, one main goal or many different ones for characters, but the world would remember actions and effects of all these characters on it. It kinda touches the subject of unlockable content and player organizations suggested before.

 Player could make some sort of group, retire and from time to time people could tell tales about him to some other PC (tales about 'The one who had this cool and unique mecha', 'The one who did this or that thanks to this or that happened') and his faction would grow and gain importance or change another aspect of the world depending on its goal.

 What goal faction would pursue probably would need to be chosen while founding it, ranging from such things like 'Clan and group of friend supporting each other (would be probably without much effect on the world, could turn into mafia or become part of other faction after long time passed) to 'Archeology and Research faction' which could unlock access to some secret/ancient/new technologies, maybe some alien left-overs or new grave danger to the world which would now risk complete destruction (Alien faction of Colliders from Hadron system! ;PPP).

 There could be wars, random changes in standard factions policies, very, very, very rarely new spinners being build and some other ones getting forgotten and abandoned or blown up (and maybe, just maybe, someone at the right time and place could save the day?), non-random NPC or those which got their 5 minutes due to contact with player could get their own stories and deeds good or bad (depending on their character traits). World would seem like moving on and living on it's own, player being one of it's residents who may become someone important but isn't the only source of change.

 Sure, that's quite a lot of things and would need years to make them but surely it's some kind of goal.

What else - as far as factions are concerned, getting player's own base or building, finding artifacts and equipment to be able to do more (rare equipment allowing to change some of the components of mecha or to give it special abilities if Mecha Engineering is high enough) secret places and quests that may not really seem like one (player found some old trinket - he may sell it or check the museum/collector and get more cash and exp for going somewhere and finding more of those items which are some kind of set). I wouldn't mind current quests having an impact on the world (again, randomly chosen - finding artifact from the Age of Superpowers for some scientist after a month either helps devising new technologies which make some hi-tech equipment cheaper and more common or blows up the laboratory [maybe even whole spinner?] with all the personnel and data).

What some players would probably greet happily would be more morally unclear missions - for example, player is to end rebellion somewhere. He may go there and destroy rebels camps and thus - end the turmoil but know at the same time that he killed hundreds of poor people who just couldn't stand their bad living conditions (which could but didn't have to necessary be a fault of the government they were rising against). Of course, if there would be other (and far more hard) options of solving the problem - it's even better.

Inhuman amount and work, and probably many bugs would need to be fought along the way (The place on which culmination of main plot was going to take place just cease to exist.. what to do now? New script needed etc) and I am not 100% sure if adding all of that would be even theoretically possible but man, that would be something..

And one little bit at the end - I would be really grateful for some simple, crude navigation system - just some minimap so I will know where are other spinners if I'll choose to travel on my own.. and even this idea could be build upon, allowing players to get some super scanners which show hidden pirate/black market/forgotten places.

Edits: Answering one thing, adding one idea and trying to do something with quotes - I have difficulties with putting one into another..

Offline SharkD

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« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2009, 12:49:17 AM »
Quoting: Snakebit STI
Or a really good singer. With a sizable lance (horde!) of fanboys/girls willing to lay down their lives for you.

That's actually a good idea. I.e. performers over time pick up an "entourage" of fans/roadies/etc. instead of a "lance" of predominantly fighters.

Offline xpace

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« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2009, 02:58:55 AM »
Quoting: Vair
Only if we'll take some battleships and cruisers as such.

Good point. The scale of the "spaceship" might indicate how feasible this could be.

For instances, a small fighter-scale ship could just be considered a variant of mecha that's designed exclusively for space travel and should move faster in space and have more cargo room than a humanoid mecha. But spacecraft bigger than the largest mecha might require their own scale, which would complicate things and require more coding, new miniscule mecha sprites, etc, etc.

Quoting: Vair
For me, fighters like Wraith fits the idea of spaceship as well, just add Faster-Than-Light drive to it.

FTL drives are not required for travel between Earth, Moon, Spinners, or even asteroid bases. In RL, if one were able to travel near the spead of light - even at 50% lightspeed - it would only take a few minutes to make the trip! (Sunlight only requires 8 minutes to reach the Earth.) Using FTL for this is overkill since you might arrive in a few seconds.

Besides, if FTL was available in GearHead, then the game universe would need to be expanded greatly to include various nearby star systems. That much added complexity and resource requirements dwarfs the idea of adding ships without FTL!

Of course, in game terms, that much realism is not necessary. One could simply blank the screen for half a second and then change the scene with a message saying you arrived at your destination (or something). For us gamers with short attention spans, the "trip" might only take a few seconds. But in-game it could be assumed anywhere from a few minutes to several days passed by.

Quoting: Vair
I would like more vehicles like that. Especially if it wouldn't be that easy for a mecha to travel through space for longer distances (regular space mechas shouldn't rather have FTL drives to travel between spinners easily on their own).

I agree that if space mecha are even capable of traveling between Spinners (an idea I'm not sure I like), there should be some restrictions. Perhaps they could only travel between Spinners in close proximity and not other destinations, such as the asteroids (too far away, to difficult to navigate and would get damaged/destroyed by micrometeorites) or the Moon (re-entry too dangerous to make a safe landing, or prohibited by Aegis regulations). Spaceships should have some sort of screen to deflect micrometorites. And perhaps some of them have a ramscoop to collect particles, reducing the fuel requirement for long trips to/from the Asteroid Belt?

Quoting: Vair
I would be really grateful for some simple, crude navigation system - just some minimap so I will know where are other spinners if I'll choose to travel on my own.. and even this idea could be build upon, allowing players to get some super scanners which show hidden pirate/black market/forgotten places.

I like it. Good ideas.

Quoting: Vair
Script that would make random people go 'Hey, it's you, the one who did this and that'

I like the idea in theory. However, the script would have to keep track of all quests and deeds to make that work. That would be quite a task if random quests are included. But if it's limited to the main quest it would be more feasible, methinks.

Quoting: Vair
friendly organization's representative greeting you when you come to spinner and issuing you a temporary bodyguard

The greeting thing sounds cool if it were reserved exlusively for those who've obtained the highest ranks in the faction. But the bodyguard thing might be a bit excessive.

Quoting: Vair
...and from time to time people could tell tales about him to some other PC (tales about 'The one who had this cool and unique mecha', 'The one who did this or that thanks to this or that happened')

I think it would be cool if, randomly, a person might mention one of the main quest deeds from GearHead 1. Except, since many of those quests are random, I suppose it would be difficult to cover them all.

Also, I like the idea of having to collect certain rare items for a museum or collector in order to get something in return. As long as it's not too difficult, that is.

Offline Matrix

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Brainstorming: What to do in town?
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2009, 03:27:20 AM »
Quoting: xpace
the Moon (re-entry too dangerous to make a safe landing, or prohibited by Aegis regulations)


On a technical note, the Moon has no atmosphere. You can't make a re-entry if there's no atmosphere to enter.

Offline Aquillion

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« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2009, 03:55:18 AM »
Quoting: Snakebit STI
Methinks this is neat, but way too headache inducing for one Joeseph Hewitt. It would require a new scale of combat, and new rules to go with that, and new weapons, and new... yeah. Maybe instead of the player owning and flying the ship, the player's faction does? There could still be the special events you mentioned, either as random encounters or missions. Being allowed to commandeer a ship should require relatively high standing in your faction, otherwise you're just along for the ride.
There was a lot of talk about spaceships back when work on GH2 was just starting.  What I'd like most of all is spaceships that the player can actually walk around inside of, and treat like home.  Modules attached to slots on the ship could appear in the appropriate place inside the ship, so you could add repair stations or whatever if you can buy them.

Honestly, spaceships don't even have to be able to fight.  Even just as a mobile home base, they'd be very fun.

Offline xpace

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« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2009, 09:17:44 AM »
Quoting: Matrix
On a technical note, the Moon has no atmosphere. You can't make a re-entry if there's no atmosphere to enter.

Er... yeah, you're right.
However, I was thinking of how making a safe landing in a Lunar Module is not supposed to be easy. At least, I seem to recall reading something to that effect.

Quoting: Aquillion
Modules attached to slots on the ship could appear in the appropriate place inside the ship, so you could add repair stations or whatever if you can buy them.

That sounds like a great idea.

But this also gives me a good idea: How about keeping everything for space travel at mecha scale, but a large spaceship would be represented by several mecha-sized sprites? This could be done in such a way that, visually, it would still resemble one ship. But the game mechanics would be that all the pieces are moved together as if they're one. This would also help maintain the impression that such spaceships really are enormous.

Then again, mecha are already supposed to be the size of a house. Do we really need spaceships the size of a modern aircraft carrier or small Star Destroyer?

Offline Daemonward

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« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2009, 09:59:04 AM »
Quoting: xpace
But this also gives me a good idea: How about keeping everything for space travel at mecha scale, but a large spaceship would be represented by several mecha-sized sprites? This could be done in such a way that, visually, it would still resemble one ship.


There are already spaceships like this in-game. They appear in missions where they are being attacked by pirates and you have to save them. IIRC they are immobile and can't be boarded, but they do have weapons and their various sections/modules can be damaged/destroyed.

Offline xpace

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« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2009, 12:44:54 PM »
Well, there you go.

All that's needed, then, is a method of boarding them and game mechanics to allow them to move or be moved. That, and perhaps a chance to purchase them (at astronomical prices) and navigate them through space.

Quoting: Joseph Hewitt
- Challenging people to duels, being challenged by people.

I like it. Though, I'd prefer most challenges to not be to the death. However, if you really, really get on someone's bad side...

Shouldn't it affect Traits, though? Accepting or making a challenge should increase Passionate and winning should increase Renowned. Likewise, refusing/chickening-out would increase Easygoing and loosing the duel would of course increase Wangtta.

Also, the game repercussions for eliminating an important NPC would be... interesting. Such as challenging the leader of a certain faction to a duel of honor, eliminating them, and then... what happens? Someone else takes up the leadership role?

But if this were incorporated, I'd like a "taunt" option so as to gradually intimidate or tease someone into a fight.