GH2: Graphics Content and New Experiment

[Snakebit STI]

Is the limitation file size or the time it takes to make the sprites?

For what it's worth, I think a set of 8 low-res sprites looks better than 1 high-res sprite. The high-res sprite might look better in still images, but I think the charm is lost as soon as you rotate the camera.

As for the directional arrows, could those be added, but show velocity instead of attitude? Specifically for mecha in fly, skim, and space flight modes.

[Daemonward]

Quoting: Joseph Hewitt

At 128px, these sprites look pretty good. Wouldn't it be very labor-intensive to make all the sprites this way, though?

In the short term:

-Making new sprites for everything is indeed labor intensive.

In the long term:

-It's easier for potential art contributors to draw new sprites than to make more of the 3D model sprites that are currently being used.

[EarthquakeDamage]

I'm not too kicked about the current mock-up/example.  The sprites don't seem to jive too well with the 3D environment.

Since you're showing off examples, do you suppose you might try using the little 3D models like we have now, only actually render them on the map rather than use sprites made from the models?

[Phil Munoz]

I think the models used in those sprites are a bit high-poly for gearhead.

What format does gearhead use for 3d meshes anyway?  Let's try doing a few low-poly mockups.

EDIT:  Looks like it uses .obj  let's see what we can whip up.

[Joseph Hewitt]

Yes, it uses .obj files. Send me a quick low-poly model (person or mecha, whatever) and I'll try to do a quick test.

[Phil Munoz]

I've got a mock-up mesh, done.  it has a bit more than 400 triangles.  The texture is just a placeholder.  nothing fancy.

where do i send it?  it's a 36 kb file.

*EDIT*

sent it to joseph hewitt's email add as published in user info.

[SharkD]

We could steal 3D models from other open source projects:

* S.C.O.U.R.G.E. (reuses free models made for Quake; maybe too much fantasy for GH)
* UFO: Alien Invasion (lots of cool item/weapon models, various body armors, etc.)
* Others?

I have a set of spare mecha models on my website, but they don't really match JH's usual style.

[Joseph Hewitt]

Quoting: Phil Munoz

I've got a mock-up mesh, done. it has a bit more than 400 triangles.

I did a test this morning. I was expecting 400 triangles to slow the program down to a crawl, but apparently my mesh handling is better than I thought because it ran just as well as the 2D sprites. Here's a screen capture.



Because you didn't include a skin, I just used this test pattern to try the color swapper.



With human colors, it looks like everyone is wearing chaps. This could be either a good thing or a bad thing, depending on your opinion.



So, even without a complete rewrite of the renderer, using meshes for everything is feasible. This is good to know. The next release of GH2 (maybe this weekend?) will have config options to try out both the paper doll and the test mesh, so the rest of you can play around with them and see what you think.

Assuming that a new graphics programmer did not start over from scratch, here are some things that need to be fixed up in the current display/rendering unit:

- The lighting and backdrop need to be improved.
- Sometimes, certain features (such as the space backdrop or the tactics cursor) disappear. This needs to be fixed.
- NamesOverHeads needs to be implemented.
- The mesh renderer needs better skin support. The edges of the skins don't work in the same way as they do in Art of Illusion.
- The terrain renderer needs to be improved. I think that all terrain, buildings, and whatnot could be converted to meshes- this would improve rendering time and probably appearance as well.
- Anti-aliasing/general improvements to the look of the game.
- Slicker interface elements.

Quoting: SharkD

We could steal 3D models from other open source projects

Possibly. For 90% of the monsters, definitely. For the characters, maybe... IMO, the character meshes should attempt to match the look and feel of Ladi's avatars: ultramodern, cool, and eclectic. Heroic-style scifi or anime-inspired modern might work. The important thing would be maintaining a coherent look. The mecha, obviously, would require models to match their portraits. Several of the monsters are strange/specific enough to require their own meshes as well (Sea Dragon, Hunter-X series).

[Phil Munoz]

ack.  i knew i forgot something.  anyway, i'll send the png file of the mockup texture later.

for character meshes, is it feasible to have each 'module' rendered as a separate obj?  You know, so that the character graphic will reflect what it's wearing.

[Joseph Hewitt]

Quoting: Phil Munoz

for character meshes, is it feasible to have each 'module' rendered as a separate obj? You know, so that the character graphic will reflect what it's wearing.

It should be possible to do that. I don't know if I'd want to do that for every character or just the PC; certain NPC types need distinctive appearances so you can pick them out of a crowd.

Something I've noticed with the meshes is how static they look. With the 2D sprites, it was somehow easier to overlook the fact that they didn't move. The meshes look like they should be moving.

Edit- I thought of two things to add to the graphics improvement list.

- Shadows, or at least a shadow on the ground beneath mecha
- Indicators for speed and movement mode, as suggested by SharkD

If you have anything else to add, please mention it.

[Skulkraken]

I think the indicators underneath the models could be used to show the speed and the movement mode.  The indicator could be a mesh itself, and take on different forms depending on the movement mode being used.  The indicator could also be used to help obscure the fact that the mecha has no shadow, I guess.

[Snakebit STI]

Please make it a velocity indicator instead of a speed indicator! I find full speed charge attacks in space flight to be nigh impossible unless I'm already lined up with my target, or have enough time to move in line, stop, and then charge.

[EarthquakeDamage]

Quoting: Joseph Hewitt

Something I've noticed with the meshes is how static they look. With the 2D sprites, it was somehow easier to overlook the fact that they didn't move. The meshes look like they should be moving.

Well, it's a start.  I definitely like it better than the sprite/paperdoll example.  The sprites were too flat.

To address the "staticness" issue without animating anything, maybe you could drop realism for more of a board game look.  You know, figurines with bases and such.  Like Risk or HeroQuest.

[Daemonward]

Quoting: Phil Munoz

for character meshes, is it feasible to have each 'module' rendered as a separate obj? You know, so that the character graphic will reflect what it's wearing.

This could also be applied mecha:

-show damaged/destroyed modules.

-mecha engineers making crazy Frankensteined mecha.

-meshes for equipped weapons(beam swords/railguns/bazookas) and projectiles(missiles/bullets/beams).

The possibilities are overwhelming.

[Joseph Hewitt]

Here they are with the provided skin:



Is this how the model is meant to appear? As mentioned before, I think there are some problems with my skin handling. There was a dot on the skin that looks like an eye but it's not showing up anywhere here.

Quoting: Skulkraken

I think the indicators underneath the models could be used to show the speed and the movement mode. The indicator could be a mesh itself, and take on different forms depending on the movement mode being used.

Good ideas. BTW, why haven't your sisters forced you to join facebook and provide support in Mafia Wars yet?

Quoting: Daemonward

This could also be applied mecha:

Part of me is thinking "Cool!" and part of me is thinking "Down that path lies madness". On the one hand this would be a great idea. On the other hand, given the amount of customization possible in GearHead, it would be extremely difficult to do well. If weapons appear on the models, and limbs can appear damaged, the next step would be to build the mecha model from limbs and show all customization. What is the computer supposed to do when someone builds a monstrosity with a Dora body and seventeen legs, no two of which are from the same design?