Author Topic: GH2 0.603 Playthroughs (Spoilers)  (Read 2747 times)

Offline Burzmali

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 399
    • View Profile
GH2 0.603 Playthroughs (Spoilers)
« on: May 07, 2009, 09:33:07 AM »
Here's a dump of my first attempt at 0.603, lines marked with *** are errors.  I'll summarize it in another post when I have a chance.

+------------------------------------------------- ---+
|                        Nene                        
|         28 year old female police officer.        
|                                                    
| Reflexes   10 Good      Total Exp:             607
| Body       15 Great     Free Exp:              607
| Speed      11 Good      Credits:           $146806
| Perception 12 Good                                
| Craft      12 Good      Current Mecha:            
| Ego        11 Good                   WR-106 Wraith
| Knowledge  14 Great     Current Faction:          
| Charm      13 Great                          L5Law
|  Your father was a Police Officer and your        
|  mother was a Doctor.                              
|                                                    
| Skills:                 Talents:                  
| Close Combat +4         Polymath                  
| Conversation +4                                    
| Dodge +4                                            
| Insight +2                                        
| Mecha Fighting +3       Cyberware:                
| Mecha Gunnery +2        None                      
| Mecha Piloting +2                                  
| Ranged Combat +4                                  
| Spot Weakness +3                                  
|                                                    
| Inventory:                                        
| Personal Communicator                              
|                                                    
+------------------------------------------------- ---+

==Galconde Spinner==

Etpgi: Did you hear about all the robberies by the Blades of Crihna lately? It's a dangerous time to work in a bank, that's

for sure...

Mecha Gunnery 2 => 3
Mecha Piloting 2 => 3

Etpgi: I heard a rumor that Dutrok needs a mecha pilot to intercept an enemy patrol. Rejected (Rishiri).

Bought: Tyb 2-4 Assault Rifle  (DC:6) $32370, with several spare clips.
***Clips take up alot of space in inventory, could they be collapsed into a single entry?***

Mellydo Keluci@Galconde Spinner:// I have something for you to do at Tech Outlet. This is sort of important.

Bought: Riot Shield [AC:30] $3279(?)
Bought: Katana (for opening doors)

Sunten: It's been said that Xiswip Damimi needs a mecha pilot to intercept an enemy patrol.
Sunten: I think Ogdaya Gevo needs a pilot to fight some criminals.
Sunten: It's been rumored that Ruyxij needs a pilot to fight some criminals. Accepted (L5Law)
Sunten: Someone said that Ulsjes needs a pilot to fight some criminals.
Sunten: Someone said that Qarte needs a mecha pilot to intercept an enemy patrol.

Mellydo Keluci: We've lost some very sensitive information in the form of a datachip. I need for you to locate this chip and

return it to me.

Bought: Flight Suit (couldn't find skinsuit)

Kela Josrey: It's common knowledge that Faski knows something about the Datachip.
Faski: As far as I know, the Datachip is currently in the possession of Duylulo.  More than this I couldn't say.
Pinnanro: It's rumored that Emgacp Adh knows where to find just about everything in this town.
Emgacp Adh: I know where Duylulo's Hideout is. I could tell you, but information doesn't come cheap... It's going to cost

you $5000 to find out.
Nene: How about we duel for the info instead?
Emgacp Adh: Duel for it? What is this, a Love Magnet holiday special? I've got no reason to duel- everything to lose and

nothing to gain. I've told you my price. If you don't like it then you can do without.
Nene pays $5000
Emgacp Adh:  Ah, it's been a pleasure taking your money. This chip holds the coordinates of Duylulo's Hideout in Galconde

Station Exterior. You should be able to find it quite easily.

Ruyxij: Good to see you made it, Nene. If you're not busy I have a job that needs your attention.
Ruyxij: There's a mecha gang operating in Galconde Station Exterior. I want you to
locate them and disable their machines; for this, you'll earn $3749.

Recovered Custom Soldier Chameleon from the S.S. Apnahy
Found Large Geode ($1050020), Alexandrite ($850025), Amethyst ($75025), gold ignot ($48025) and Moonstone ($35025) while

exploring
***The ship is listed as "the S.S. Apnahy, L1" in the 'L'ook screen***

Nene moved from Wraith to Custom Soldier Chameleon
Won mission: Vs. Buru Buru, Mesby (Ruyxij, $3749)

New Specialty: Initiative
Improved: Initiative 1 => 4

Attacked by Wraith as I approached Duylulo's hideout.
Duylulo: They said that you were looking for this Datachip... Well, I hate to disappoint you, but I stole this for Omsaz

Hieb and I never disappoint such an important customer.
Nene: I'm afraid that I can't let you keep it.
Duylulo: If that's how you feel, I'm afraid I can't let you live!
One gunfight later
Duylulo: You win! Just take the Datachip and leave!
Duylulo gives you the Datachip.

New Specialty: Intimidation
Improved: Intimidation 1 => 3

Mellydo Keluci: Have you found the Datachip yet?
Nene: I have it right here. [Give item]
Mellydo Keluci: The mission was a complete success. Good job. (paid $27080)

Bought: Skinsuit
Sold: Flight suit

Things appear to be resolved in Galconde Spinner, for the time being.
Perhaps Ikiumi Elxid of L5Law will be able to shed some light on this situation. You decide to visit Rishiri Spinner and

find out.

End of Episode 1
Start Episode 2
+------------------------------------------------- ---+
|                        Nene                        
|         28 year old female police officer.        
|                                                    
| Reflexes    9 Typical   Total Exp:            1747
| Body       14 Great     Free Exp:              247
| Speed      10 Good      Credits:            $88677
| Perception 11 Good                                
| Craft      11 Good      Current Mecha:            
| Ego        10 Good        Custom Soldier Chameleon
| Knowledge  13 Great     Current Faction:          
| Charm      12 Good                           L5Law
|  Your father was a Police Officer and your        
|  mother was a Doctor.                              
+------------------------------------------------- ---+
New Specialty: Shopping
Improved: Shopping 1 => 2
Sold: Large Geode, Alexandrite, Amethyst, gold ignot and Moonstone

Rishiri Spinner:

***Typo: There are no rumemo messages at this time.***

Uitgel: All my friends say that Astza needs a mecha pilot for an upcoming combat mission.
Hanuri: I heard someone say that Choryixl Yxy needs a pilot to fight the infiltrators from the Bohemian Collective.
Hanuri: In my opinion, Aqgne needs a pilot to fight the infiltrators from the Bohemian Collective.
Hanuri: I believe Jarhemah needs a pilot to fight the infiltrators from the Bohemian Collective.
Video Terminal: Could the Bohemian Collective be planning an invasion? Rishiri Spinner reports clashes with security forces.

Aqgne: Infiltrators sent by the Bohemian Collective have been spotted in Rishiri Station Exterior. I want you to go defeat

them; do this, and you'll earn $3750 plus salvage.
Won Mission: Vs. SAN-X12 Buru Buru (Aqgne, $3750, captured Buru Buru)
Sold SAN-X12 Buru Buru

Igges: I believe Bahdu needs a pilot to fight some criminals.
Bahdu: The criminals I'm after are holed up in Rishiri Station Exterior. I need you to locate them and eliminate every last

one. Do this, and you'll earn $4500.
Won Mission: Vs. Buru Buru, Mesby (Bahdu, $4500)
Improved: Mecha Piloting 3 => 4
Improved: Mecha Gunnery 3 => 4

Choryixl Yxy: Infiltrators sent by the Bohemian Collective have been spotted in Rishiri Station Exterior. I want you to go

defeat them; do this, and you'll earn $3750 plus salvage.
Won Mission: Vs. Buru Buru (Choryixl Yxy, $3750)

Jarhemah: Infiltrators sent by the Bohemian Collective have been spotted in Rishiri Station Exterior. I want you to go

defeat them; do this, and you'll earn $3750 plus salvage.
Won Mission: Vs. Buru Buru (Jarhemah, $3750, Etpgi joined in a Roc)
Lost Custom Soldier Chameleon after attacking Etpgi to see if he would react.
Earned Villainous (25), Slightly Criminal (5) for a single punch (a bit harsh)

Quit

Offline Burzmali

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 399
    • View Profile
GH2 0.603 Playthroughs (Spoilers)
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2009, 07:20:00 PM »
Consolidated version with comments (in ***'s):

I started with an auto-generated charactered and got a 28 year old female police officer with decent Body Charm and Knowledge, but low Speed and Reflexes.  I named her Nene, because, you can't ever really get too much Bubblegum Crisis.

Nene's home spinner turned out to be Galconde and her starting mecha a Wraith.   As a cop, her starting faction was L5Law.  Her initial skills were concentrated on personal scale combat (close and ranged combat as well as dodge at +4) but she had all of the mecha combat skills, and even one of the generic combat skills (Spot Weakness).  Her starting talent was Polymath.

***First, the Wraith sucks horribly if you don't know how to use it.  Giving it to a new player is an invitation to have them remove the game after a single play.  

***Next, there is no clear distinction between personal scale, mecha scale and dual use combat skills.  A experienced player can sort them out, but a novice has to guess it "Electronic Warfare" a skill that "Determines your ability to electronic warfare equipment and resist status effects" has any effect in personal scale combat (which it doesn't but the description kind of suggests otherwise).

***Also, every basic character seems to be a polymath.  While this isn't really a bad idea to help out new players, a little variety for experienced players would be nice.

As I started my adventure, Nene was confronted by her friend Etpgi who informed her that Blades of Crihna were robbing banks.  It really didn't sound like new or interesting, as the Blades are pirates and pirates tend to rob things, but from Etpgi's enthusiasm, I am going to go ahead and assume that they have stepped up their activities.  He also tipped me off on a clue that Dutrok needed help with a mission, though the jerk turned me down flat.  Next step, upgrading and equipping.  My starting Mecha combat skills were pretty weak, so I bumped up gunnery and piloting.  Next, I trolled the local stores and outfitted with a Tyb 2-4 Assault Rifle, Riot Shield and Katana.  I wanted a skinsuit, but ended up with a Flight Suit.

***The new rumour system is working well I guess, but instead of chatting with every stranger I meet, I am demanding rumours of them, so I don't really know it there is much improvement.  Also, rumours seem to come in spurts.  The first half dozen folks I talked to had nothing to say, the Sunten laid his life story on me.

***I never heard a rumour about the guaranteed mecha quest.  It might just have been a coincidence, but I can't recall ever hearing that rumour since 0.600.

*** As above, is there a chance that similar Ammo could be collapsed into a single menu entry?

***Also, why do I have to buy ammo, aren't I a cop?  Shouldn't L5Law pony up some ammo and armour?

***As I noted above, I bought a katana as a door opening device.  I could buy a skill and a tool and then expend MP to open doors, or I could by a melee weapon with a decent DC and smash them open for free.  Code Breaking never really seems like a viable option.

Now, on with the plot.  I received an email from Mellydo Keluci asking to meet me at the Tech Outlet.  Once there, she requested that I recover a data chip with sensitive information that was stolen.  Suddenly, the next person I talked to had heard that Faski knew about the data chip.  Faski knew that Duylulo had the chip, but not where Duylulo was.  The next stranger knew that Emgacp Adh knows about everything in town.  Emgacp Adh demand $5000 for information on the location of Duylulo's hideout and Nene paid after Emgacp Adh refused to duel for the information.  And with that, my next plot destination was revealed, but I had a few more stops before chasing down Duylulo.

***Why am I forced to rely on rumours for this?  Isn't there a crime scene somewhere?  I am a cop after all.

***Why would Faski know about the chip?  I can understand how Emgacp Adh might know where Duylulo's hideout is.  But is Faski a witness?  Is he a player in the clack market?  Why does every seem to think that he knows about the chip?

***On that topic, if Emgacp Adh "knows where to find just about everything in this town", why am I even dealing with Faski?  Shouldn't Emgacp Adh have the low down on the chip?

***Also, what's up with these names?  The rumour tracking system is nice, but I still have to take notes or copy paste to ensure that I get the spelling right.

Next stop: Free mecha on the S.S. Apnahy.  With my Katana of door opening, exploring the ship was pretty straightforward.  I found plenty of treasure while exploring and discovered a Custom Soldier Chameleon.  The Armored fungus was quickly dispatched with a few bursts of AP ammo.  After leaving, I completed a mission for Ruyxij against a Buru Buru, getting used to the CSC's mech rifle and grenade launcher.  Finally, a mech that can can hold its own in battle though I learned and improved Initiative just in case.

***The treasure I found while exploring the S.S. Apnahy (with it's odd name "the S.S. Apnahy, L1") seemed a bit too rich.

***Melee weapons do a lot of damage.  I was regularly clearly 50 damage with the katana on doors.

With that, I headed for Duylulo's hideout.  After a brief skirmish with a Wraith as I approached, Nene cornered Duylulo and demanded the data chip.  Like an idiot, Duylulo revealed that he had stolen the chip for Omsaz Hieb, and he attacked once Nene made it clear she was going to apprehend him.  The battle was a bit drawn out (i.e. several reloads to perfect the outcome) but eventually Duylulo surrendered and gave Nene the data chip.  Mellydo Keluci gratefully accepted the chip, rewarding Nene for her actions.  With that, Nene knew that her work here was done, and that she should visit Ikiumi Elxid on Rishiri Spinner.

***It's still pretty tricky to force a surrender.  I had to shoot off one of Duylulo's arms (the one with his weapon) and rubber bullet him into yellow health before he surrendered.

***In this case, the surrendered seemed pretty pointless.  As a cop, I was trying to apprehend him (he is a thief after all, his subtitle says so) but after surrendering the chip, he seems happy to go on his merry way.  It would have been better if he hadn't leaked Omsaz Hieb's name unless he was captured, or the PC managed to break into a nearby terminal.

***Mellydo Keluci's response to my victory was pretty weak.  She didn't seem interested in knowing that Omsaz Hieb was after the chip or anything.

With the situation resolved for the moment, Nene upgraded to a skinsuit, bought and upgraded Shopping, sold off the loot from the S.S. Apnahy and headed off the Rishiri spinner.  At Rishiri, everyone (and by everyone, I mean the first person that would talk rumours with me) was talking about how the Bohemian Collective was attacking the spinner.  Several defense missions were being offered and Nene accepted four.  The first three want as planned and for the fourth, Nene was joined by Etpgi in his Roc.  Etpgi quickly dispatched the Buru Buru from the Bohemian Collective.  After his victory, Etpgi commented to Nene, "If you come back to my quarters tonight, I'll show you how speed is only a virtue on the battlefield", to which Nene playful throw a punch his way to bring him to his senses.  However, despite failing to connect, Etpgi misinterpreted Nene's actions and opened fire, obliterating her CSC.  Worse yet, he began spreading rumours that painted her as a villain and criminal, effectively ending her career.  After giving up her attempts to find freelance work, Nene returned to Galconde to work as a traffic cap.

***It looks like Rishiri was under a mood when I arrived, which is cool, but I didn't really feel like the mood was anything more than an excuse to give me more missions.

***The attack on Etpgi missed and turned him hostile, but I wonder, would he have gone hostile if I had attacked the square next to him with a blast weapon?

Offline Joseph Hewitt

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2521
    • View Profile
    • http://www.gearheadrpg.com
GH2 0.603 Playthroughs (Spoilers)
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2009, 06:00:51 AM »
Quoting: Burzmali
Next, there is no clear distinction between personal scale, mecha scale and dual use combat skills.

Good point. The only skills that really aren't dual use (IIRC) are Electronic Warfare and Toughness. This should be indicated in the skill description.

Quoting: Burzmali
Shouldn't L5Law pony up some ammo and armour?

Y'know, I really ought to write up something on the bizarrities of the GearHead employer-employee relationship.

Quoting: Burzmali
Code Breaking never really seems like a viable option.

Code Breaking's best uses don't have to do with doors. At the moment it's probably the best clue skill, since you can use it on a fair percentage of the quest and core story computers.

Quoting: Burzmali
Why am I forced to rely on rumours for this? Isn't there a crime scene somewhere? I am a cop after all.

I assume you're asking for an in-universe reason rather than the game mechanics one... but you've just given me an idea for a new plot construction mechanic.

The way it works now, the datachip mission calls a FetchItem subplot. This is all the mission itself is capable of, since it has no idea what clues or subplots the FetchItem is going to need. The FetchItem subplot is essentially a black box from the perspective of the Mission subplot- this is a feature, not a bug, since it means that FetchItem subplots can be called in various ways. The "friend lost his watch" and the "thief wants rare item recovered" subplots also call FetchItems.

How about this: the parent subplot of the FetchItem provides some details about how the player's investigation should go. For instance, in a police mission, it might provide a crime scene. In the "friend lost his watch" mission it might provide the scene where the watch was last seen. The FetchItem subplot then uses this information as a base for all of its subplots. Suppose FetchItem needs a "Item stolen by NPC" and a "Locate NPC Base" subplot. These could be tied to clues at the crime scene. Maybe with Investigation the PC could get information directly, while those without will have to go searching for rumors/waiting for the forensics team/etc.

I'll have to think more about this.

Quoting: Burzmali
Also, what's up with these names?

I've made the name generator more random than it was before, with the unfortunate effect that it also generates a higher percentage of really terrible names. Take a look at the nametest program in the SVN; the original name generator was making repeating names every 100 or so iterations, while the new one can go for 2000 or thereabouts (I think).

I should work on this some more.

Quoting: Burzmali
The treasure I found while exploring the S.S. Apnahy (with it's odd name "the S.S. Apnahy, L1") seemed a bit too rich.

Depends on the RNG. Dungeons are a limited resource, so relatively rich treasure there isn't such a bad thing.

Quoting: Burzmali
In this case, the surrendered seemed pretty pointless.

Good point. Police PCs should arrest the NPC in that case. I'll add that.

Quoting: Burzmali
Mellydo Keluci's response to my victory was pretty weak.

That's another problem. Remember what I said about the FetchItem being a black box to the GiveMission? The win mission/reward subplot is a child of the GiveMission, so it really has no way of knowing what went on in the FetchItem. I'll try to think of a workaround for this.

That said, at the moment there are only a couple of WinMission subplots and they're all pretty lame.

Quoting: Burzmali
It looks like Rishiri was under a mood when I arrived, which is cool, but I didn't really feel like the mood was anything more than an excuse to give me more missions.

There are more events associated with moods than just missions, but most of them don't activate until after 20 or 40 renown. For instance, if the city has a "skirmishing" or "crime wave" mood there will be random encounters in the outdoor scenes. The moods will get more... um... moody with further development.

Quoting: Burzmali
The attack on Etpgi missed and turned him hostile, but I wonder, would he have gone hostile if I had attacked the square next to him with a blast weapon?

No, he wouldn't have. This system also needs improving.

Offline Burzmali

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 399
    • View Profile
GH2 0.603 Playthroughs (Spoilers)
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2009, 07:12:17 PM »
To be fair, I am trying to approach my summaries from the standpoint of what I would expect from a completed game.
Quoting: Joseph Hewitt
Code Breaking's best uses don't have to do with doors. At the moment it's probably the best clue skill, since you can use it on a fair percentage of the quest and core story computers.

That's cool.  It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to have every plot skill have a non-plot usage.
Quoting: Joseph Hewitt

I assume you're asking for an in-universe reason rather than the game mechanics one... but you've just given me an idea for a new plot construction mechanic.

Maybe I watch too much CSI, but when I think cops and robberies, I think  crime scene.
Quoting: Joseph Hewitt
I should work on this some more.

I would agree.  Whenever I need to bust out the pen and paper for a modern game, I assume something is wrong.

I don't want to sound like I am panning the game or anything.  The new skill system is pretty tight (though I never really had a problem with the old one).  And overall, the game is turning out quite good.

Offline Joseph Hewitt

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2521
    • View Profile
    • http://www.gearheadrpg.com
GH2 0.603 Playthroughs (Spoilers)
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2009, 10:37:44 PM »
Quoting: Burzmali
As above, is there a chance that similar Ammo could be collapsed into a single menu entry?

I just had an idea: if there were a procedure to check two items to see if they're identical, then the backpack interface could just list the first one in the backpack followed by a "x 2" or whatever. This would be much easier than trying to write a stacking system.

Quoting: Burzmali
Also, why do I have to buy ammo, aren't I a cop? Shouldn't L5Law pony up some ammo and armour?

I've been thinking about giving the PC some initial equipment; this could be modified by starting faction. Maybe certain factions would even provide unique equipment that cannot be bought- Cop Badge (Tool, Intimidation +1).

Quoting: Burzmali
Mellydo Keluci's response to my victory was pretty weak.

Idea for solving this problem: Store a single "accomplishment" string in the plot. When the plot concludes, the NPC can reference this string. For instance, upon arresting Bilbo a string "Bilbo is now in custody" could be stored. When you go to get your reward, the message would be something along the lines of "Good work out there. Bilbo is now in custody. Here's your reward." In the event of no message being found a generic one could be inserted. "Good work out there. The mission was a success. Here's your reward."

Perhaps, instead of being set manually, these strings could be set automatically like rumors and hints. The GiveMission subplot would make a request for SubPlot1's accomplishment, this might result in recursive requests for SubPlot1's subplot's accomplishments, and a string eventually gets sent back. The problem with setting this automatically is that certain subplots might have different possible accomplishments.

Quoting: Burzmali
I would agree. Whenever I need to bust out the pen and paper for a modern game, I assume something is wrong.

Maybe there could be a system whereby, directly from the memo screen, you could call someone mentioned in the memo? I have no idea how to accomplish that... the brute force method would be to add a call option to the memo display, then if the button is pressed do a search of all callable NPCs in the city and add their names to the menu if a text search can find them in the memo. This would of course result in some inappropriate names being added, such as "Tor" showing up for the memo "Bob says his engine doesn't have enough torque".

One option which I am kind of loathe to use is to add a list of a few thousand real names which can be selected at random. To preserve uniqueness, each campaign would need a random key that would determine the order in which these pre-generated names get assigned. That would prevent NPCs from being given unpronounceable names but comes with problems of its own. A hybrid system in which major NPCs get either pregenerated or random names, while minor NPCs only get random ones, might work well.

Quoting: Burzmali
I am trying to approach my summaries from the standpoint of what I would expect from a completed game. ... I don't want to sound like I am panning the game or anything.

I understand what you're doing, and your comments are really appreciated. Likewise, in replying to them I don't want to sound like I'm just rationalizing all of the half-assedness that currently exists in the game.

Sometimes I run into the trap of thinking only in terms of what the program can do rather than what it should do. Often I'll have a conversation in my head which goes like this:

"That's a good idea, but the engine can't handle it."
"Wait a minute... aren't I the person who created the engine? Why not just add this as new functionality?"
"Huh. I guess it can do that, after all."

Of course, sometimes there'll be a really good reason why something either can't be done or at least wouldn't be worth the effort.

Offline CCC

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 82
    • View Profile
GH2 0.603 Playthroughs (Spoilers)
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2009, 05:32:15 AM »
I can see three sensible responses to the rumour/call problem.

The first, and easiest, is to simply call when the name of the person you wish to call is on the screen.

The second is the brute-force search, but limiting it only to strings that are separated by spaces or other non-alphabetic characters will but down on false positives.

Option three will be the hardest to implement but may be worth it; expanding the rumour data type to include both a string and the important named NPCs (in some uniquely identified format, such as a pointer to the relevant data structure).

--------------

At the same time, it might be worthwhile to look at refining the phone interface. Incorporating a history of previous numbers dialled, a redial button, a function that guesses the name you meant to dial and offers options... all of there would be nice he they were there. As it is, type a name wrong and you have to retype it.

Offline Burzmali

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 399
    • View Profile
GH2 0.603 Playthroughs (Spoilers)
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2009, 05:47:23 AM »
Quoting: Joseph Hewitt
Maybe there could be a system whereby, directly from the memo screen, you could call someone mentioned in the memo? I have no idea how to accomplish that... the brute force method would be to add a call option to the memo display, then if the button is pressed do a search of all callable NPCs in the city and add their names to the menu if a text search can find them in the memo. This would of course result in some inappropriate names being added, such as "Tor" showing up for the memo "Bob says his engine doesn't have enough torque".

Why not just add a second string to the memos and rumors to embed the name of the likely calling target?  As a bonus, you could underline the name in the memo to let the player know who they are able to call.

I don't really mind the kooky names, but the constructions are getting so far from common name constructions that they are getting too difficult to memorize for longer enough without jotting them down.

Quoting: Joseph Hewitt
I understand what you're doing, and your comments are really appreciated. Likewise, in replying to them I don't want to sound like I'm just rationalizing all of the half-assedness that currently exists in the game.

Sometimes I run into the trap of thinking only in terms of what the program can do rather than what it should do. Often I'll have a conversation in my head which goes like this:

"That's a good idea, but the engine can't handle it."
"Wait a minute... aren't I the person who created the engine? Why not just add this as new functionality?"
"Huh. I guess it can do that, after all."

Consider yourself lucky, I beat SantiagoZ/Slash about the ears for a month over his 7DRL Expedition ;)

The brothers that run Bay 12 Games (makers of Dwarf Fortress) found the sweet spot for developing a game that way.  Basically, one writes stories about adventures that take place in-universe and the other makes it happen in the code.

The_Soviet_Onion

  • Guest
GH2 0.603 Playthroughs (Spoilers)
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2009, 04:45:01 AM »
When you activate your phone, you get a list of all phoneable NPCs in alphabetical order and then just pick one. Maybe you'd need to buy some kind of directory software first.

Offline Joseph Hewitt

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2521
    • View Profile
    • http://www.gearheadrpg.com
GH2 0.603 Playthroughs (Spoilers)
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2009, 05:12:49 PM »
Quoting: Burzmali
The brothers that run Bay 12 Games (makers of Dwarf Fortress) found the sweet spot for developing a game that way. Basically, one writes stories about adventures that take place in-universe and the other makes it happen in the code.

That's certainly similar to my methods. The Bay 12 guys are high on my list of game designers I'd like to bring out for dakkalbi and drinks sometime.

Quoting: The_Soviet_Onion
When you activate your phone, you get a list of all phoneable NPCs in alphabetical order and then just pick one. Maybe you'd need to buy some kind of directory software first.

There are lots of NPCs in each city, though, so scrolling through such a list would be a pain. Might still be better than the alternative, I guess.

Offline Burzmali

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 399
    • View Profile
GH2 0.603 Playthroughs (Spoilers)
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2009, 06:40:23 PM »
Quick bug report, I'd seen this happen before but since I don't normally use a flying mecha it usually doesn't happen to me.  I attacked a Mesby while flying in a Gaunt.  The attack hit, but did no damage, and then I fell out of the sky.  The log reported:

> Yukiko fires ML:Night Missiles 6.
> Pyyobr is hit for 0 damage. Mebsy has been blinded!
> Gaunt has crashed! 688 damage. Right Wing destroyed. 5mm Rifle Clip (Rubber) destroyed. 5mm Rifle Clip (Flechette) destroyed. Thunder Token destroyed. 5mm Rifle Clip destroyed. Gaunt destroyed! Yukiko ejected!
> Gaunt has crashed! 688 damage. Right Wing destroyed. 5mm Rifle Clip (Rubber) destroyed. 5mm Rifle Clip (Flechette) destroyed. Thunder Token destroyed. 5mm Rifle Clip destroyed. Gaunt destroyed! Yukiko ejected!
> Gaunt explodes!
> Gaunt is hit for 276 damage. Left Leg destroyed. Flight Jets destroyed. Gyroscope destroyed.                                                                  
> You lost Tybbop's mission.

The Roll Tracker reported

Yukiko rolls Mecha Gunnery+Perception [13+2] vs 8:18
sensor+1; at-run-3; tr-stop+3; elevation+1          
Pyyobr rolls Mecha Piloting+Reflexes [6] vs 18:15  
Mebsy to block with Class 2 Shield [+0]            
Pyyobr rolls Mecha Fighting+Speed [4] vs 18:7      
Pyyobr rolls Electronic Warfare+Ego [1] vs 4:1      
--                                                
Yukiko rolls Dodge+Speed [10] vs 5:6                
Gaunt rolls Mecha Piloting+Reflexes
  • vs 29:1


I don't know what's going on, but that last line looks suspicious.

Offline Joseph Hewitt

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2521
    • View Profile
    • http://www.gearheadrpg.com
GH2 0.603 Playthroughs (Spoilers)
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2009, 07:04:09 AM »
Weird. I'll see if I can replicate that.

I've been thinking about the crime scene idea, and I have no idea how to deal with it, other than perhaps adding it as a new (and separate) mission type, which is less than ideal.

Offline Burzmali

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 399
    • View Profile
GH2 0.603 Playthroughs (Spoilers)
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2009, 01:38:23 PM »
I think you need to have a component return an element to it's parent when completed in addition to returning status.  In this case, the component would hand back a persona fragment which the parent would run first.

Aside from that, I've hit a deadend (non-plot related) where after beating the lieutenant's two hitmen, I lost the central battle (taking a 20 renown hit, ouch) and now the story seems stuck, as the battle isn't regenerating.

Save available if you need it

Offline Joseph Hewitt

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2521
    • View Profile
    • http://www.gearheadrpg.com
GH2 0.603 Playthroughs (Spoilers)
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2009, 10:02:29 PM »
Quoting: Burzmali
I think you need to have a component return an element to it's parent when completed in addition to returning status. In this case, the component would hand back a persona fragment which the parent would run first.

As a solution to the mission-giver not acknowledging the mission outcome issue, this is similar to my suggestion to just record a string describing the outcome. The problem with passing back a complete persona fragment is that the mission has no idea what's going on back there. Maybe some other event (rather than a generic reward) is scripted for when the PC completes the mission. Maybe there's no mission-giver at all.

Quoting: Burzmali
Save available if you need it

Send it on over.

Offline Burzmali

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 399
    • View Profile
GH2 0.603 Playthroughs (Spoilers)
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2009, 05:23:23 AM »
Quoting: Joseph Hewitt
As a solution to the mission-giver not acknowledging the mission outcome issue, this is similar to my suggestion to just record a string describing the outcome. The problem with passing back a complete persona fragment is that the mission has no idea what's going on back there. Maybe some other event (rather than a generic reward) is scripted for when the PC completes the mission. Maybe there's no mission-giver at all.

The idea is that the component passes back the fragment, but it is the parent's choice to use it or not.  Ideally, it would hand over an array of persona fragments and the parent would choose the one it needed, but a single fragment with enough branching should be fine.

Quoting: Joseph Hewitt
Send it on over.

It'll be along tonight, in about 12 hours.

Offline Burzmali

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 399
    • View Profile
GH2 0.603 Playthroughs (Spoilers)
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2009, 04:38:46 PM »
Looking through the save, it seems that the problem lies in line 42612:

nu1 <if= T1 0   Return   if= V1 0 V= 1 1 LoseRenown History 1 SetMoodTimeLimit 610 86400 LoseSubPlot 1986   Trigger0 .4_1987_GoLoss>

Since no trigger identified as ".4_1987_GoLoss" exists, the plot stalls.

Perhaps it should be "Trigger0 .3_1986_GoLoss", since otherwise that trigger is unreachable.