Biotech in GH2

[Onisuzume]

Quoting: Ephafn

Are biomecha vulnerable to POISON and GAS effects?
If they are, it should be straightforward to add some anti-bio weaponry.

No to poison, dunna about gas.

[clasic_traveller_diehard]

correct me if i'm wrong but isn't a biomecha just a big biomonster wearing regular mecha armor, wielding regular mecha weapons and has a control stick jammed into its brain stem (an admitably very complex control stick but still a control stick)

If thats the way it works then it stands to reason that you could go out into the deadzone, search for the biggest mutant T-rex-buffalo you can find, and after much wrestling, broken limbs, and crying. you have a tame mutant T-rex-buffalo(i just love saying that) to mount your plasma cannons on.

[Trorbes]

Quoting: clasic_traveller_diehard

correct me if i'm wrong but isn't a biomecha just a big biomonster wearing regular mecha armor, wielding regular mecha weapons and has a control stick jammed into its brain stem (an admitably very complex control stick but still a control stick)

A la Neon Genesis Evangelion, Eureka Seven, et al.?  While that is a neat idea, it's a bit more Super Robot to GearHead's Real Robot.  I envision it being more like a big semi-organic machine, with electronic components combined with muscles and a nervous system-like control system.

[Vair]

I am quite sure that machines from Neon Genesis Evangelion were in fact kind of semi-organic machines. Or at least bigass cyborgs. Living tissue changed into or combined with mechanisms - otherwise there would be no point of electrical energy cables they had to be connected to, to keep on going.

Interesting point about the poison tho - maybe biomechas should be vulnerable to poison, at least if it'll penetrate the armor. And it would need to be large dose of quite potent one to make up for mechas size.

[Onisuzume]

Maybe, but only to poison that is specifically engineered to hurt biotech stuff.
From what I gather, biotech is artificially engineeded living tissue, so it wouldn't be too far-fetched to think that they'd remove such obvious flaws as being vulnerable to poison.

As for biomecha having metalic parts a la cyborg: I don't know, seems too maintianance intensive, the cyclopses don't seem to be cyborgs either.

[Crucifix]

Quoting: Vair

I am quite sure that machines from Neon Genesis Evangelion were in fact kind of semi-organic machines. Or at least bigass cyborgs. Living tissue changed into or combined with mechanisms - otherwise there would be no point of electrical energy cables they had to be connected to, to keep on going.

Interesting point about the poison tho - maybe biomechas should be vulnerable to poison, at least if it'll penetrate the armor. And it would need to be large dose of quite potent one to make up for mechas size.

Eva was curiously inconsistent on this aspect. The vehicles in question were completely, or near completely, organic. These organisms were, at best, "guided" by their pilots, and the mechanical constraints (power supply being one of them) were placed upon them were less for the benefit of the mech, and more the control system to make them do anything they didn't actually want to do as much as it is a defensive measure (like their armour stopped anything, it was all AT fields). Remember, the EVA require no power to move, they require power to make them move, this discounts energy dependency on the actual mecha systems that a cyborg would likely have.

At the same time, there exist a multitude of pure biomecha in the series, every single angel is pretty much solid biological, even the majority of their weapon systems are, with very few exceptions, most likely biological in origin (though almost exclusively self-motivated, as EVA units are prone to be when plot demands).

In GH terms, self-motivated mecha would be rare; why "pilot" such a mecha, rather than just have it as your lancemate?
In payload terms, you probably would have, in a setting of biomecha hand-in-hand with regular mecha, likely the obvious conclusion - regular mecha with biotech armour/weapons, biomecha with the opposite, a lot more often than they'd be exclusive to their own material type.

And venoms would, most likely, be biotechnologically manufactured to even have a hope of success.

[clasic_traveller_diehard]

you guys lost me at "Neon Genesis Evangelion"

what i meant was the average joe or small buissness owner isn't going to have the reasources to design and clone new bio mecha frames from scratch even with references to typhoon and cetus.

but cyberware technology is within thier reach if someone wanted a easier/less customizable way to make a biomecha one way they could do it is to find a large sf1 or sf2 biomonster wandering around the dead zone, isntall some sort of cyber ware remote control in its brain, and then strap on some armor and guns.

I could even see some dead zone tribal "taming" some beasts and useing them as ipmrovised mecha.

[Daemonward]

With examples like Hunter-X, Cetus, Ladon, and Typhon one might get the impression all biotech(or at least all autonomous biotech) creations are very powerful, dangerous, and uncontrollable. Are there any biotech creatures that aren't a menace to humanity? Conversely, are there any non-autonomous, i.e. piloted, biotech creatures/mecha that are a threat to their owners? What about semi-autonomous(lethargic/fugue-state, reflexive self-defense but otherwise don't do anything without instructions) biotech creations?

Can biotech be created with built-in control mechanisms:
-Addicted to/dependent on substance controlled/produced only by creator.
-Mind control, mental conditioning, easily suggestible, implanted memories(authority figure).
-limited mental functions(only thinks in certain ways), or just STUPID.
-sterile/infertile, limited fertility, limited lifespan.
-can only survive in certain environments(atmosphere, temperature, pressure)
-susceptible/vulnerable to certain substances/stimuli(severe allergy, types of radiation, smells, images, tastes, light spectrum, sound frequencies, etc.)

On a side note, why haven't there been any biotech Zoanoids? I mean, they're already based on organic body plans. The next logical step would be to start incorporating organic components in their construction.

[Vair]

Well, biomechas were made to be a menace against humanity as something really ancient, powerful, mysterious, you name it. It's typical plot thingy in many anime, probably based on another cliche rule that if something is really old, technologically advanced and unknown, then when people start playing with that something goes wrong. I still think that's better than if player would find 'hibernating' biomecha that could be claimed like every oher regular piece of equipment.

 As for EVAs, I would disagree with Crucifix - if my memory serves me right, they were made by humans even if with use of not-completely researched or at least base of very complex elements (Lilith's blood for example) and energy cable was necessary for EVAs to work. The only situation when EVA was going on its own without fully-developed internal drive is when it got berserk. But I am not that much of Evangelion geek so if someone will direct me to proper wiki page about EVA's mechanisms, I will be glad.

 And when we're on this subject, I hope that biomechas will not try to pose as so sophisticated like in Evangelion. With all those religious, drama, spiritual stuff it's a little over what Gearhead's world offers for now. Biomechas should stay as just machines which mechanism's aren't made of steel but of living tissue. Maybe advanced, more 'harmonious' because of that, but still, machines.

 As for Zoanoids, that would be logical step but we must take into consideration that currently biomechas aren't being build while people still may want to ride a giant lion or whatever. So they build Zoanoids with what they can. I must say I don't care that much, giant robotic animals doesn't seem to be the most efficient war machines for me unless a lot more advanced than every other mecha type. I think it's just another thingy that got mixed in because of popularity in many anime.

[SharkD]

Quoting: Crucifix

Anti-biotech weaponry would actually be mechanically sound - a higher-potency BRUTAL ability, only against biotech would be the simplest way to prevent biotech dominance. The comparative inferiority of these weapons versus standard mecha would prevent saturation of the weapons to the point of making biomecha impractical, the mere extistence of this countermeasure would prevent the reverse.

This sounds reasonable.

[Aquillion]

For the biotech repair ability, what about using a formula that involves all of Medicine, Repair, and Science?  Take two highest out of those three skills and average them, or something.  You must have at least two of the three to attempt a repair at all (and it tells you why you can't if you try without them.)

I don't think that taking at least two of those skills is a particularly onerous requirement for anyone.